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Thread: Millennials Are Leaving Religion And Not Coming Back

  1. Top | #21
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post
    .
    And with good reason. I have it on excellent authority that the young today have misplaced priorities:

    1.
    They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
    ~ Aristotle

    2.
    "The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
    ~ From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274

    3.
    "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
    ~ Hesiod, 8th century BC

  2. Top | #22
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    Why is the religious message so full of fear and despair, that a defenseless infant is born filthy, wretched and worthless? What is wrong with a person that he cannot outgrow and get past this insidious religious propaganda?

    My wife and I always reflect on the fact that you shouldn't judge people too quickly because you don't know what their lives have dealt them. It's easy to assume that someone had the same life as your own, maybe not ideal but still okay. But that is very often not the case.

    If as a group millenials are deciding that superstition isn't worth the time, good on them. Turn those old churches where pedophiles roamed into decent businesses, or tear them down and make some space for people to grow weed, brew wine and spirits and take walks on green grass.

  3. Top | #23
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    I'm willing to bet the assumption that they are more consumeristic than Boomers, who built American consumer
    decadent wealth of gadgets and trinkets unnecessary for living..

    My point is oter things are cultruraly replcing religion,

    Religion used to provide a foundation for living. A means to derive self worth from something other than accumulation of things.

    .
    I’m trying to reconcile this view of religion as deriving meaning without things.... with.... for example , the Vatican.
    And Megachurches.


    Not succeeding.

  4. Top | #24
    Deus Meumque Jus
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    Quote Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
    I doubt it correlates strongly with science.

    I'd bet it has more to do with consumerism and convenience, and the increasing alienation of individuals as lone consumer-workers and as enterprisers more interested in self-development than following in the footsteps of others. So more like increased 'Me-ism' than rationalism's progress.
    Could be. I always figured that people's reality is socially constructed. Before Darwin there wasn't much of a meaningful explanation of the world, so everyone learned that God did it, and that was that.

    Today, science is so pervasive that most reasonable people have the intuitive realization that 'we can explain this now' and just assume religion is untrue.

    I think this would be pretty much borne out by studying the correlation between Western education and religiosity worldwide. In places where people aren't taught an alternative (science), religion is rampant.

  5. Top | #25
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    I'm confused as to how one could know whether Millenials will return to the faith later in life or not? The oldest of us are only forty, well before the Azzi-Ehrenberg threshold.

  6. Top | #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Millennials new religion is hating on Boomers.
    Speaking as a boomer maybe that's a good thing.
    It might be if so many of them weren't engaging in the same kind of mindless, fact-free, historically ignorant, group-think, meme-based ideas and arguments, just like the worst of the Boomers they hate. And no, I'm not hating on Millenials for being Millenials. I'm criticizing the actions of individuals who happen to be Millenials and act as though membership in a generational category makes all Boomers bad and all Millenials above reproach.

    For example, while bitching about Boomers and GenXers lack of action on the environment, only 28% of Millenials bothered to vote to keep Trump out of office, and thus the rest share responsibility for the untold generations of damage his Presidency has and will do. That's lower than the 30% of Gen Xers and even 30% of Boomers who voted against Trump. That might seem surprising, but even though younger voters did vote increasingly in favor of Hillary, more Millennials who could have voted didn't bother to vote at all, and therefore more Millenials did not vote against Trump.

    When you try to criticize the inherent group-think bigotry of the "Ok Boomer" meme the only response your likely to get is "OK Boomer".

    The problem isn't Boomers, it's conservatives, and while there are more of them among Boomers, there are conservatives at every age and many Millenials will become more conservative with age. Attacking Boomers as though it's synonymous with conservatives is like attacking "blacks" as a group as though its synonymous with gun violence, just b/c a higher % of blacks have engaged in gun violence.
    Criticize people based upon their own actions, not based upon unchosen affiliation with a category.

  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    The billboard says it best.

    Why is it a bad thing to want to enjoy your life? And how is enjoying your life the same thing as living as if there were no tomorrow? They are not the same thing at all.

    And why is it better to spend your life as a slave submitting to an imaginary god, tortured with guilt and a sense of low self-worth, always fearful that you may do something to piss it off and bring its wrath upon your head? What is it about this life that appeals to you so much?

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    I'm willing to bet the assumption that they are more consumeristic than Boomers, who built American consumer
    decadent wealth of gadgets and trinkets unnecessary for living..

    My point is oter things are cultruraly replcing religion,

    Religion used to provide a foundation for living. A means to derive self worth from something other than accumulation of things.

    .
    I’m trying to reconcile this view of religion as deriving meaning without things.... with.... for example , the Vatican.
    And Megachurches.


    Not succeeding.
    For me it is not a black and white issue. For many Christians I have known it provides hope above all else. Look at the history of black Christianity. I try and take a balanced view.

    In colonial times a local church provided social services.

    Looking back for although the faith did not stick the RCC schools I went to provided a structure and moral environment I did not get from my family.

    So the question for me is if Christianity in this country is abandoned what replaces it, even considering the well known moral failures such as the RCC sex abuse. It is hard to deny that our social structure is corroding.

    If you want to see the corrosion walk around Seattle for a month. Young people smoking crack in sight of the courthouse. It occurs all over downtown and is too big for the police.In the news a 14 year old girl stabbed someone 7 times. School shootings and the hundreds that have been prevented.

    For centuries religion served to keep a lid on things. Today the media, Hollywood, and advertising are creating the norms. Most of it is distopian.

    That is how I see it. While I argue against the religions, I also see some positive aspects,. Maybe a topic for social science.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    I'm willing to bet the assumption that they are more consumeristic than Boomers, who built American consumer
    decadent wealth of gadgets and trinkets unnecessary for living..

    My point is oter things are cultruraly replcing religion,

    Religion used to provide a foundation for living. A means to derive self worth from something other than accumulation of things.

    .
    I’m trying to reconcile this view of religion as deriving meaning without things.... with.... for example , the Vatican.
    And Megachurches.


    Not succeeding.
    For me it is not a black and white issue. For many Christians I have known it provides hope above all else. Look at the history of black Christianity. I try and take a balanced view.

    In colonial times a local church provided social services.

    Looking back for although the faith did not stick the RCC schools I went to provided a structure and moral environment I did not get from my family.

    So the question for me is if Christianity in this country is abandoned what replaces it, even considering the well known moral failures such as the RCC sex abuse. It is hard to deny that our social structure is corroding.

    If you want to see the corrosion walk around Seattle for a month. Young people smoking crack in sight of the courthouse. It occurs all over downtown and is too big for the police.In the news a 14 year old girl stabbed someone 7 times. School shootings and the hundreds that have been prevented.

    For centuries religion served to keep a lid on things. Today the media, Hollywood, and advertising are creating the norms. Most of it is distopian.

    That is how I see it. While I argue against the religions, I also see some positive aspects,. Maybe a topic for social science.
    That sounds very much like a 'good old days' argument. In those good old days alcoholism and domestic violence were rampant. Maybe the post ww2 economic boom helped things in the U.S. but it didn't solve anything.

    Religion isn't for me something that solves anything but rather proceeds from something that's already there in the society and the culture. Primarily religion is a vertical social hierarchy, a pecking order, that's all. Buy into the social order or don't. But it certainly doesn't empower the individual or solve fundamental problems. The woo factor is actually pretty unimportant in comparison to this other aspect.

    When people praise religion they're essentially praising the virtues of monarchy.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    I'm willing to bet the assumption that they are more consumeristic than Boomers, who built American consumer
    decadent wealth of gadgets and trinkets unnecessary for living..

    My point is oter things are cultruraly replcing religion,

    Religion used to provide a foundation for living. A means to derive self worth from something other than accumulation of things.

    .
    I’m trying to reconcile this view of religion as deriving meaning without things.... with.... for example , the Vatican.
    And Megachurches.


    Not succeeding.
    For me it is not a black and white issue. For many Christians I have known it provides hope above all else. Look at the history of black Christianity. I try and take a balanced view.

    In colonial times a local church provided social services.

    Looking back for although the faith did not stick the RCC schools I went to provided a structure and moral environment I did not get from my family.

    So the question for me is if Christianity in this country is abandoned what replaces it, even considering the well known moral failures such as the RCC sex abuse. It is hard to deny that our social structure is corroding.

    If you want to see the corrosion walk around Seattle for a month. Young people smoking crack in sight of the courthouse. It occurs all over downtown and is too big for the police.In the news a 14 year old girl stabbed someone 7 times. School shootings and the hundreds that have been prevented.

    For centuries religion served to keep a lid on things. Today the media, Hollywood, and advertising are creating the norms. Most of it is distopian.

    That is how I see it. While I argue against the religions, I also see some positive aspects,. Maybe a topic for social science.

    I do not understand black christianity.

    And as someone raising good moral secular kids, I don’t identify with your feeling that without church something is lacking.

    I also agree with the disconnect with your pining for the good old days of spousal abuse and rape, child abuse without public interference, in-home substance abuse, lynchings, racism and gang and mob violence. The fact that in the evils were not spoken of doesn’t make them not present.

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