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Thread: God and him being source of objective moral vales

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    God and him being source of objective moral vales

    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?

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    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    I have encountered a few religious folk who state that all these different gods are really the same god. That argument doesn't work, however, because they're all giving different instructions on what to do to be moral. So it seems the lesson when it comes to god belief would be that god belief requires a person be amoral.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    If you want to have this discussion, you should illustrate the conflicts between different religious authority based moralities. Does different Gods actually yield different objective moralities, or is this a strawman argument?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    God's presumed objectivity does not necessarily elevate all writings or portrayals of gods; suppose all of them are wrong except one, somehow? One can say this "feels" implausible, but saying that will do little to change the mind of someone who has already accepted it as proven that their denomination has the whole of the truth. Why appeal to the moral views of a group that the listener already considers illegitimate? You'll just get wrapped up in inter-denominational bickering by proxy.

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    God's presumed objectivity does not necessarily elevate all writings or portrayals of gods; suppose all of them are wrong except one, somehow? One can say this "feels" implausible, but saying that will do little to change the mind of someone who has already accepted it as proven that their denomination has the whole of the truth. Why appeal to the moral views of a group that the listener already considers illegitimate? You'll just get wrapped up in inter-denominational bickering by proxy.
    So...effectively, we have no good reason to put any stock in any particular portrayal of any supposed god's supposed morals. Makes sense, and thank you for pointing it out.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    God's presumed objectivity does not necessarily elevate all writings or portrayals of gods; suppose all of them are wrong except one, somehow? One can say this "feels" implausible, but saying that will do little to change the mind of someone who has already accepted it as proven that their denomination has the whole of the truth. Why appeal to the moral views of a group that the listener already considers illegitimate? You'll just get wrapped up in inter-denominational bickering by proxy.
    So...effectively, we have no good reason to put any stock in any particular portrayal of any supposed god's supposed morals. Makes sense, and thank you for pointing it out.
    There's no reason to be an asshole about this, I was just opining on the question.

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post

    So...effectively, we have no good reason to put any stock in any particular portrayal of any supposed god's supposed morals. Makes sense, and thank you for pointing it out.
    There's no reason to be an asshole about this, I was just opining on the question.
    I'm not being an asshole. What I said is the upshot of what both you and BH said.

    Use of irony on my part, I admit.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    It is falsely argued. The notion of god can be no more than a hypothetical because the existence of a god cannot be objectively proven. It makes no sense to attempt demonstration of objective values for an unprovable thing.

    next thread

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    Even if we knew via objective evidence that God X existed, that God's moral decrees would be no more "objective" than your or mine subjective feelings about those issues. Are your feelings about whether buttholes should be sniffed any more objective though your dog's feelings about sniffing buttholes? Clearly not, just like God's feelings about abortion and gays is just a subjective opinion of a different entity, no more objective than any human's opinion. What theists are really trying to do is treat blind authoritarian deference as though it's the same as deferring to objective truth about fact. That is what makes theism so inherently dangerous and incompatible with valuing reason and human liberty.

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH View Post
    It is argued that any god that exists is the source of objective moral values. The problem is that there are many different deities believed in around the world and therefore potential different sources of so called objective values. How could anyone tell what is true objective morality with so many gods supposedly believed in?
    The search for objectively true moral values is akin to the search for the objective truth about God. The Hindu pantheon includes malevolent deities.
    But they are recognised as malevolent because...? You guessed it.
    Epistemology.

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