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Thread: HPV: WHO calls for countries to suspend vaccination of boys

  1. Top | #31
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    Anybody here with young sons who are going to turn down a HPV vaccine for him because girls don't have enough vaccine? I'm curious.

  2. Top | #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    You poor thing.

    Thank you Jimmy Higgins for your substantive and thoughtful contribution.
    Jimmy's contribution was shorter and as thoughtful and substantive as the PPW (Penile Protection Waah) OP.

  3. Top | #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Anybody here with young sons who are going to turn down a HPV vaccine for him because girls don't have enough vaccine? I'm curious.
    Your curious about something of zero logical relevance to the discussion?

    People selfishly favor their own kin. Governments and related organization are not supposedly to give a shit about that, but act in the collective best interests of all. So, if giving all the limited vaccines to young women has the largest net impact in reducing the most serious and costly HPV-related outcomes, then that is what they should do, even if it makes misogynist right wing snowflakes angry.

  4. Top | #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playball40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    I really feel for Metaphor on this. Clearly women are going to be the end of him.

    Regardless, check out this link. Each year, HPV is associated with about 35,000 new cases in the US. The split is around 60-40 overall. It would appear gay men are at great risk as oropharnyx is the big cause among men, otherwise, men's risk to HPV related cancers plummets to closer to 10% or nearly a magnitude lower than women.
    I don't understand your analysis here, oropharynx cancer isn't limited to gay men, indeed, the famous cases I know about are all straight men. But it seems overall HPV is associated with about 20,700 cancers in women and 14,100 cancers in men.
    Of throat cancer or throat cancer from HPV? NOT all throat cancer is related to HPV - you know that right?
    The famous cases related to HPV, not throat cancer generally.

    I wish I had gotten the HPV shot. Too late now, almost certainly.

  5. Top | #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Anybody here with young sons who are going to turn down a HPV vaccine for him because girls don't have enough vaccine? I'm curious.
    Your curious about something of zero logical relevance to the discussion?

    People selfishly favor their own kin. Governments and related organization are not supposedly to give a shit about that, but act in the collective best interests of all. So, if giving all the limited vaccines to young women has the largest net impact in reducing the most serious and costly HPV-related outcomes, then that is what they should do, even if it makes misogynist right wing snowflakes angry.
    That merely pushes back the location of the decision. Do you think a national government that provides HPV vaccines to boys will now stop providing them, and would you support and push for your own government to do so?

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Anybody here with young sons who are going to turn down a HPV vaccine for him because girls don't have enough vaccine? I'm curious.
    Your curious about something of zero logical relevance to the discussion?

    People selfishly favor their own kin. Governments and related organization are not supposedly to give a shit about that, but act in the collective best interests of all. So, if giving all the limited vaccines to young women has the largest net impact in reducing the most serious and costly HPV-related outcomes, then that is what they should do, even if it makes misogynist right wing snowflakes angry.
    That merely pushes back the location of the decision. Do you think a national government that provides HPV vaccines to boys will now stop providing them, and would you support and push for your own government to do so?
    How many males will die if they don't get the vaccine verses how many females will die if they don't get the vaccine? Right now, it is about 300,000 annual deaths for women.

  7. Top | #37
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    Out of touch with reality as usual.

    If there were a fixed supply of vaccine they would be right--it provides a greater benefit to women, you get the maximum benefit from using the fixed number of doses on women.

    However, in the real world there are two issues--consumption in first-world countries and subsidized/donated supplies for the third world. The first world consumption leads to production, vaccinating a first-world boy isn't taking it away from a third-world girl. The subsidized stuff should be going entirely to girls until that segment is saturated.

  8. Top | #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    That merely pushes back the location of the decision. Do you think a national government that provides HPV vaccines to boys will now stop providing them, and would you support and push for your own government to do so?
    How many males will die if they don't get the vaccine verses how many females will die if they don't get the vaccine? Right now, it is about 300,000 annual deaths for women.
    That isn't the question I asked. Does your country or state government provide HPV vaccines to boys, and (whether it did or not, supposing for these purposes that it did) would you lobby your government to stop providing them (or even forbid them) to boys, until the HPV vaccine shortages are resolved?

    ronburgundy accused me of being illogical by asking if parents would deny it to their own sons (even though I already pointed out that people in wealthy countries do similarly self-focused things all the time). I assume it means ronburgundy would not deny it to his own sons if the situation arose. But that is what WHO is asking governments to do: deny it to a nation's sons. If ronburgundy believes that that's what should happen, he should lobby his own government to forbid HPV vaccines for boys.

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    That merely pushes back the location of the decision. Do you think a national government that provides HPV vaccines to boys will now stop providing them, and would you support and push for your own government to do so?
    How many males will die if they don't get the vaccine verses how many females will die if they don't get the vaccine? Right now, it is about 300,000 annual deaths for women.
    That isn't the question I asked.
    It really should be. It is the basis for the proper direction to take regarding the limited HPV vaccine. Generally the policy you were ignorantly whining about.

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    That merely pushes back the location of the decision. Do you think a national government that provides HPV vaccines to boys will now stop providing them, and would you support and push for your own government to do so?
    How many males will die if they don't get the vaccine verses how many females will die if they don't get the vaccine? Right now, it is about 300,000 annual deaths for women.
    That isn't the question I asked. Does your country or state government provide HPV vaccines to boys, and (whether it did or not, supposing for these purposes that it did) would you lobby your government to stop providing them (or even forbid them) to boys, until the HPV vaccine shortages are resolved?

    ronburgundy accused me of being illogical by asking if parents would deny it to their own sons (even though I already pointed out that people in wealthy countries do similarly self-focused things all the time). I assume it means ronburgundy would not deny it to his own sons if the situation arose. But that is what WHO is asking governments to do: deny it to a nation's sons. If ronburgundy believes that that's what should happen, he should lobby his own government to forbid HPV vaccines for boys.
    WHO is not asking to deny vaccines to a nation's sons - it is asking them to get daughters done first. It is nuanced difference that you ought to be able to appreciate.

    But you'd rather implicitly advocate for "equality of vaccination access" even if it means a dramatic decline in the health of a nation's daughters compared to that of the nation's sons.

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