Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 66 of 66

Thread: Xmas Stuff

  1. Top | #61
    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lancre
    Posts
    9,413
    Archived
    14,435
    Total Posts
    23,848
    Rep Power
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Religion and the Public Square

    What, if anything, has Christmas contributed to Western Civilization that could earn the respect of the secularist and hence win their grudging acquiescence in its ongoing public acknowledgment?

    "...The celebration of Christmas has been a powerful teacher of the dignity of the human person."

    Christians think Christmas is about the dignity of the human person. Higher Being thinks human beings are worth something - "the human race as a whole, and of each human person as an individual."

    Here's the Public Discourse's take on why that ideal, along with other Christmas-related social benefits, make for a worthwhile institution that deserves a hall pass from the atheist fun police.

    ...As the story goes;
    Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.

    Read the Carson Holloway Op Ed or not. Critique his arguments as you will. But what's at the root of your problem with Christmas?
    What a lovely fantasy.
    The Authoritarians

    GOP and Trump supporters will not be able to say they didn't know. Vote in numbers too big to manipulate.

  2. Top | #62
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Located 100 miles east of A in America
    Posts
    25,720
    Archived
    42,473
    Total Posts
    68,193
    Rep Power
    100
    I think Lion IRC is thanking secularism for making their religious holiday worth something.

  3. Top | #63
    Formerly Joedad
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    5,794
    Archived
    5,039
    Total Posts
    10,833
    Rep Power
    76
    "Christmas" is less than one letter in one word on one page within chapters and volumes of human experience. For anyone to think that "christmas" is somehow overarchingly meaningful is to witness historical illiteracy at its most unkind.

  4. Top | #64
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,899
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    As the story goes;
    Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds
    Ummm, that's NOT how "the story goes." His birth was somehow "announced" to three KINGS who showered him with a fortune in gold, incense and myrrh. So, while he may have been physically born into "circumstances of poverty," within days of shooting out his mom's vagina he would be given riches from KINGS that would have lasted his entire lifetime.

    and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.
    Uh, wrong again. Blessed are the meek, remember? Rejoice in your low position and suffering in life for it means you are blessed in heaven. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’" Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

  5. Top | #65
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Lebanon, OR
    Posts
    7,448
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    24,277
    Rep Power
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    ...As the story goes;
    Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.
    Yet another case of Jesus Christ being made in the believer's likeness. He is Nordic, he is black. He is a social worker, he is an entrepreneur. He is a pacifist, he is a fierce fighter. He is Jewish, he opposes the Jews. ...

    In this case, he has a totally undistinguished background and nobody had the faintest idea of who he would become. That is the case for many well-documented high achievers in recent centuries, but it is not how the Gospels describe Jesus Christ.

    Though Jesus Christ's parents lived as commoners, both Matthew and Luke trace his nominal father Joseph back to King David. Both M and L also claim that JC's biological father was not Joseph but the Holy Spirit, making Joseph his stepfather. Seems like both M and L were trying to have it both ways. There is, however, a similar story in Greek mythology where the hero Theseus had both a human biological father and a divine one. The semen from his two fathers mixed, though that was long before anyone learned of sperm cells.

    Both M and L also have an annunciation. In M, an angel tells Joseph that his wife Mary is pregnant with someone who will become very great. In L, an angel tells Mary that she will become pregnant with someone who will become very great.

    Both M and L also have some people visiting JC when he was born. M the wise men from the east who follow a star and who bring him expensive gifts, and L some shepherds who are told about his birth by an angel.

    There is a big difference. In M, King Herod wants JC dead, and JC's parents flee with him to Egypt. In L, no such thing happens.

    Lord Raglan's hero profile | Atheism | Fandom
    List of Lord Raglan evaluations | Atheism | Fandom

    JC's birth stories fit more with birth stories of a lot of legendary heroes. Someone trying to kill them in their infancy:
    • King Herod vs. Jesus Christ
    • Pharaoh vs. Moses
    • King Kamsa vs. Krishna
    • King Amulius vs. Romulus
    • King Laius vs. Oedipus
    • King Acrisius vs. Perseus
    • Pelias vs. Jason
    • Tantalus vs. Pelops
    • Hera vs. Hercules
    • Hera vs. Dionysus
    • Hera vs. Apollo
    • Kronos vs. Zeus
    • The Roman Senate vs. Augustus Caesar
    • Lord Voldemort vs. Harry Potter

    Prophecy fulfillment is also common: Jesus Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, Zeus, Oedipus, Perseus, Romulus, King Arthur, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, Anakin Skywalker, and Harry Potter.

  6. Top | #66
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,899
    Rep Power
    13
    Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous for anyone to say that God (as he is supposed to ultimately be) was "born into circumstances of poverty." Not sure how an omnicapable being is going to be in any way impacted by what his earthly "circumstances" may be--and that, of course includes his homicide/suicide/sacrifice-to-himself-to-save-us-all-from-himself-for-something-none-of-us-did gibberish.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •