Page 25 of 50 FirstFirst ... 15232425262735 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 250 of 496

Thread: Free Will And Free Choice

  1. Top | #241
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    23,755
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    40,308
    Rep Power
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    ... you are definitely not a part of your brain.
    Why not? Provide a counter argument.
    I have dissected human brains.

    Where are you?

    Provide evidence?

  2. Top | #242
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Local group: Solar system: Earth: NA: US: contiguous states westernmost - IOW here
    Posts
    14,532
    Archived
    18,213
    Total Posts
    32,745
    Rep Power
    64
    In the wisdom bestowed by fitness the brain is designed to develop and nurture you, a process looking at the result of what the brain's activity has wrought. Don't ask for too much else it will be presented and you won't like it.

    The only way you can approach what is you is to find material variables, make hypothesis using them, conduct experiments and gather data, examine, generate theory, conduct further study to verify, locate, and measure it, establishing material description of you that does not depend on you.

    What you want to do, your argument suggests, is to rationalize. You do so by you looking at you. By so doing you become self looking at self thereby becoming a part of a self serving experiment. Doing so thus leaves a self bias. Do you understand?

  3. Top | #243
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן
    Posts
    11,673
    Archived
    17,906
    Total Posts
    29,579
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    How do you exist apart from the brain? A soul or spirit?
    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

    How do you examine material soul or spirit? How do you determine their existence? How do you understand the role these play in decision making?

    How would a non material soul make decisions? How does it explain human behaviour?

  4. Top | #244
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן
    Posts
    11,673
    Archived
    17,906
    Total Posts
    29,579
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.
    I'm asking you to support your idea. If you are making a claim for the reality of soul or spirit, non material entities, you need to support your claim. Otherwise it's just a claim.
    Did you say that or was it just a reflex you have no control over?
    You avoided the question. Why did you do that?

  5. Top | #245
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    23,755
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    40,308
    Rep Power
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

    How do you examine material soul or spirit? How do you determine their existence? How do you understand the role these play in decision making?

    How would a non material soul make decisions? How does it explain human behaviour?
    You are desperately avoiding the question.

    You want to talk about souls for some reason.

    You claim to not have free will.

    Free will includes the ability to decide if an idea is good or bad.

    Without free will a zombie merely think ideas are good because they are forced to think it.

    No free will then no meaningful judgements or opinions.

    You simply have no clue what "no free will" means.

  6. Top | #246
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    23,755
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    40,308
    Rep Power
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Did you say that or was it just a reflex you have no control over?
    You avoided the question. Why did you do that?
    I have free will.

  7. Top | #247
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Local group: Solar system: Earth: NA: US: contiguous states westernmost - IOW here
    Posts
    14,532
    Archived
    18,213
    Total Posts
    32,745
    Rep Power
    64
    Momentary pause for levity.

    Untermensche, are you a duck.

  8. Top | #248
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    23,755
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    40,308
    Rep Power
    81
    An unfree entity has no clue what anything is.

    Nothing an unfree entity says has any meaning.

    It s just something they are forced to say.

    Only something with free will knows something.

    Knowing is an act of the will.

  9. Top | #249
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן
    Posts
    11,673
    Archived
    17,906
    Total Posts
    29,579
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

    How do you examine material soul or spirit? How do you determine their existence? How do you understand the role these play in decision making?

    How would a non material soul make decisions? How does it explain human behaviour?
    You are desperately avoiding the question.

    You want to talk about souls for some reason.

    You claim to not have free will.

    Free will includes the ability to decide if an idea is good or bad.

    Without free will a zombie merely think ideas are good because they are forced to think it.

    No free will then no meaningful judgements or opinions.

    You simply have no clue what "no free will" means.
    I have avoided no questions. The issue comes down to agency. All the evidence points to brain agency, that it is the brain that acquires and processes information and selects options based on sets of criteria.

    The decisions that are made are determined by the information state of the brain in any given moment in time.

    You on the other hand invoked something non material, non detectable: soul or spirit....and when you were asked to explain, you avoided the question.

  10. Top | #250
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    23,755
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    40,308
    Rep Power
    81
    There is no evidence of "brain agency". There is no evidence the brain is experiencing what the mind is experiencing.

    Nobody ever spoke to a brain.

    There is only evidence of mind agency.

    You have no idea what "truth" is.

    Without free will there is no such thing as truth.

    Truth is a judgement.

    If you are not free to make judgements they are just forced conclusions and have no meaning.

    You know not of what you speak.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •