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Thread: Free Will And Free Choice

  1. Top | #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    ... you are definitely not a part of your brain.
    Why not? Provide a counter argument.
    I have dissected human brains.

    Where are you?

    Provide evidence?

  2. Top | #242
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    In the wisdom bestowed by fitness the brain is designed to develop and nurture you, a process looking at the result of what the brain's activity has wrought. Don't ask for too much else it will be presented and you won't like it.

    The only way you can approach what is you is to find material variables, make hypothesis using them, conduct experiments and gather data, examine, generate theory, conduct further study to verify, locate, and measure it, establishing material description of you that does not depend on you.

    What you want to do, your argument suggests, is to rationalize. You do so by you looking at you. By so doing you become self looking at self thereby becoming a part of a self serving experiment. Doing so thus leaves a self bias. Do you understand?

  3. Top | #243
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    How do you exist apart from the brain? A soul or spirit?
    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

    How do you examine material soul or spirit? How do you determine their existence? How do you understand the role these play in decision making?

    How would a non material soul make decisions? How does it explain human behaviour?

  4. Top | #244
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.
    I'm asking you to support your idea. If you are making a claim for the reality of soul or spirit, non material entities, you need to support your claim. Otherwise it's just a claim.
    Did you say that or was it just a reflex you have no control over?
    You avoided the question. Why did you do that?

  5. Top | #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

    How do you examine material soul or spirit? How do you determine their existence? How do you understand the role these play in decision making?

    How would a non material soul make decisions? How does it explain human behaviour?
    You are desperately avoiding the question.

    You want to talk about souls for some reason.

    You claim to not have free will.

    Free will includes the ability to decide if an idea is good or bad.

    Without free will a zombie merely think ideas are good because they are forced to think it.

    No free will then no meaningful judgements or opinions.

    You simply have no clue what "no free will" means.

  6. Top | #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Did you say that or was it just a reflex you have no control over?
    You avoided the question. Why did you do that?
    I have free will.

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