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Thread: Free Will And Free Choice

  1. Top | #231
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    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.

  2. Top | #232
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    I only exist within my brain. Therefore I'm part of my brain. If my brain ceases to exist I cease to exist. Therefore any decisions I make are made by my brain. I don't know how much more meaning you hope to contrive. Just because it's being referred to as "my" brain doesn't mean I'm separate from it. The Self, or what is referred to as "I", is a virtual concept. As are all other entities conceived within and by the brain.

  3. Top | #233
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    How do you exist apart from the brain? A soul or spirit?

  4. Top | #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    I only exist within my brain. Therefore I'm part of my brain. If my brain ceases to exist I cease to exist. Therefore any decisions I make are made by my brain. I don't know how much more meaning you hope to contrive. Just because it's being referred to as "my" brain doesn't mean I'm separate from it. The Self, or what is referred to as "I", is a virtual concept. As are all other entities conceived within and by the brain.
    You have knowledge of brains.

    You are not a brain and have no sense of being a brain.

    You have a sense of being a subjective mind that experiences many things and moves the body at will.

    You can't understand or explain experience. You can merely have experiences.

    Experience is a phenomena that is not understood at all.

  5. Top | #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    How do you exist apart from the brain? A soul or spirit?
    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.

  6. Top | #236
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    I only exist within my brain. Therefore I'm part of my brain. If my brain ceases to exist I cease to exist. Therefore any decisions I make are made by my brain. I don't know how much more meaning you hope to contrive. Just because it's being referred to as "my" brain doesn't mean I'm separate from it. The Self, or what is referred to as "I", is a virtual concept. As are all other entities conceived within and by the brain.
    You have knowledge of brains.

    You are not a brain and have no sense of being a brain.

    You have a sense of being a subjective mind that experiences many things and moves the body at will.

    You can't understand or explain experience. You can merely have experiences.

    Experience is a phenomena that is not understood at all.
    As true as all that may be it doesn't refute my point that if I only exist as part of my brain then all decisions I make are made by my brain. That is, they are the direct result of processes carried out by my brain. The decisions I make are necessarily the direct result of those very processes.

  7. Top | #237
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If the brain makes all decisions then nothing you say has any meaning.
    How do you exist apart from the brain? A soul or spirit?
    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.
    I'm asking you to support your idea. If you are making a claim for the reality of soul or spirit, non material entities, you need to support your claim. Otherwise it's just a claim.

  8. Top | #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    How do you know if something is true unless you have the freedom to examine ideas and accept some ideas and reject others?

    To reject an idea is just as much an act of the will as moving a finger.
    I'm asking you to support your idea. If you are making a claim for the reality of soul or spirit, non material entities, you need to support your claim. Otherwise it's just a claim.
    Did you say that or was it just a reflex you have no control over?

  9. Top | #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    You have knowledge of brains.

    You are not a brain and have no sense of being a brain.

    You have a sense of being a subjective mind that experiences many things and moves the body at will.

    You can't understand or explain experience. You can merely have experiences.

    Experience is a phenomena that is not understood at all.
    As true as all that may be it doesn't refute my point that if I only exist as part of my brain then all decisions I make are made by my brain. That is, they are the direct result of processes carried out by my brain. The decisions I make are necessarily the direct result of those very processes.
    You have suspicions your brain is somehow related to you.

    But you are definitely not a part of your brain.

  10. Top | #240
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    You have knowledge of brains.

    You are not a brain and have no sense of being a brain.

    You have a sense of being a subjective mind that experiences many things and moves the body at will.

    You can't understand or explain experience. You can merely have experiences.

    Experience is a phenomena that is not understood at all.
    As true as all that may be it doesn't refute my point that if I only exist as part of my brain then all decisions I make are made by my brain. That is, they are the direct result of processes carried out by my brain. The decisions I make are necessarily the direct result of those very processes.
    ... you are definitely not a part of your brain.
    Why not? Provide a counter argument.

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