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Thread: Is there an afterlife?

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Is there an afterlife?

    [moderator’s note: This thread is a derail split from the WSJ lying thread in Secular Lifestyles since this part of the discussion is not about the merits of telling lies to kids but is about whether or not an afterlife exists. The thread in Secular lifestyles assumes it does not because it is... Secular Lifestyles]

    Wouldn't it be a lie for an atheist parent to assert that there is no God/afterlife?
    The atheist parent doesn't know this for a fact.

    One thing that IS a fact is the actual historical existence of Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
    Last edited by Rhea; 12-31-2019 at 03:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Wouldn't it be a lie for an atheist parent to assert that there is no God/afterlife?
    The atheist parent doesn't know this for a fact.
    Informed, evidenced judgments are not lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Wouldn't it be a lie for an atheist parent to assert that there is no God/afterlife?
    The atheist parent doesn't know this for a fact.

    One thing that IS a fact is the actual historical existence of Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
    No, because:

    1. Some of us do know that.
    2. If we were mistaken, that would not be a lie, since a lie requires intent. For example, if I tell someone that Santa does not exist, it is not a lie even if he happened to exist, because I'm sure that he does not (if Santa existed, it would be an error, not a lie).

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Some of 'us' atheist parents know for a fact that there is no afterlife???
    WOW!
    That's going in the quote-mine vault.
    Thanks.

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Wouldn't it be a lie for an atheist parent to assert that there is no God/afterlife?
    The atheist parent doesn't know this for a fact.
    The atheist parent doesn't know that Krampus doesn't exist for a fact either. What should he tell his kids when they ask?
    In Central European folklore, Krampus is a horned, anthropomorphic figure described as "half-goat, half-demon", who, during the Christmas season, punishes children who have misbehaved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    One thing that IS a fact is the actual historical existence of Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
    Therefore the jolly old elf who knows their inner thoughts and can be everywhere at once is a lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post

    The atheist parent doesn't know that Krampus doesn't exist for a fact either. What should he tell his kids when they ask?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    One thing that IS a fact is the actual historical existence of Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
    Therefore the jolly old elf who knows their inner thoughts and can be everywhere at once is a lie.
    This Saint Nicholas guy is as mythical as Jesus if you read his bio. He performed all kinds of miracles, raising kids from the dead and all manner of things. Nothing was ever written of him or by him and the first accounts of his alleged life are centuries old. His alleged bones have mystical powers, lots of good woo associated with the legend of Saint Nick.

    That he is the inspiration for Santa is simply accepted cultural legend, not historical fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Some of 'us' atheist parents know for a fact that there is no afterlife???
    WOW!
    That's going in the quote-mine vault.
    Thanks.
    No, I did not mean to imply that I was a parent. I know there is no afterlife, and if I became a parent, I would still know it (it's pretty obvious to me). And some atheist parents know it, but I'm not one of them.

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    ...I know there is no afterlife
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    ...and if I became a parent, I would still know it (it's pretty obvious to me).
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    ...And some atheist parents know it,...
    I take it that when you use the word "know" you're using it in the same sense that you think a fundy claims to know that there IS an afterlife.

    Reminds me of a former media magnate and atheist Kerry Packer, who had a near death experience. He emphatically "reported" (like a good journalist,)..."There's nothing."
    There IS nothing. He experienced what NOTHING feels like.

    Sadly Mr Packer finally became a former media magnate (and former atheist) during his second NDE, when he got a little bit too close to that event horizon he called the "nothingness".

    In the totally non-preachy, non-proselytising bible, Jesus says anyone who believes can have eternal life. The bible informs us alleges that apparently we have something called a soul.

    So, what if belief in the afterlife is like some sort of placebo effect which boosts your soul's 'immune system' strengthening it sufficiently to survive that 'singularity' called death.

    In this age of quantum spookiness and wormholes and multiverse theories, (and people claiming that they were born with the wrong physical body,) I'm amazed to hear atheists emphatically declaring that they know with certainty that after death, comes nothing.


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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Technically, the bible doesn't say we have souls.
    What we have is a body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC
    I take it that when you use the word "know" you're using it in the same sense that you think a fundy claims to know that there IS an afterlife.
    I use it in the usual sense in English, so I guess, unless they mean something else. But to make it clear with examples, I use it in the sense I say I know 3+5=8, I know my bicycle is in the garage, I know the Earth isn't flat, I know it is not the case that Jesus resurrected or walked on water, I know Boris Johnson is the UK Prime Minister, etc.

    It is pretty obvious. But a debate on the matter would take longer than I'm willing to dedicate these days. In any case, even if I were mistaken, it would not be a lie on my part to say that there is no afterlife, because lying requires insincerity.

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