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Thread: Methodists split over gay rights

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    Methodists split over gay rights

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/us/un...sal/index.html

    So apparently the Methodists can’t resolve their differences over gay rights and will split into two denominations. Not sure what the heretic will be called, but it reminds me of this good old joke.

    Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

    He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

    He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

    Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

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    Anglicans split in the 90s over gays. Mean battle over ho got what property.

    I think the anti gay side aligned with some group in Uganda, virulent anti gay.

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    I read about this split a couple of days ago and am still wondering which way the huge UMC on the corner of my street will go. I'm guessing the more conservative route, but I've known at least a couple of very progressive people who attend. Maybe I'll go to their website when I have time and see if they have anything on it regarding this split.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    The same issue sabotaged efforts to unify the Lutheran denominations when I was a young adult preparing for seminary. It seems to be one of those things people just cannot get over. Ah, well. If keeping "those people" out of community is the issue people are willing to split over, a separate space may be the best for them. Their way of doing things will slowly die out by sheer demographic reality, while a kinder and more reasonable theology grows in its place. It doesn't take a seer to see that history will naturally favor a church whose doors are still open, over one which is trying to build ever higher fences around an aging congregation of misandrists. The pro-slavery Methodists did the same thing back in the day, for much the same reasons and nearly all the same justifications. And where are they now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    The same issue sabotaged efforts to unify the Lutheran denominations when I was a young adult preparing for seminary. It seems to be one of those things people just cannot get over. Ah, well. If keeping "those people" out of community is the issue people are willing to split over, a separate space may be the best for them. Their way of doing things will slowly die out by sheer demographic reality, while a kinder and more reasonable theology grows in its place. It doesn't take a seer to see that history will naturally favor a church whose doors are still open, over one which is trying to build ever higher fences around an aging congregation of misandrists. The pro-slavery Methodists did the same thing back in the day, for much the same reasons and nearly all the same justifications. And where are they now?
    In my humble opinion you have eloquently expressed how higher intelligence actually works to overcome instinctive fear and tribalism, and unfortunately how it also doesn't.

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    I visited the website of the UMC on the corner of my street. I read their bulletins and other information. Nothing was said about the split, but I did learn that the budge for next year was about 1,250,000 dollars. Wow. If only atheists were able to organize and raise so much money for charity. I know all of their money isn't for charity, but compared to many churches, this one does do a lot of charity work. Plus, they have a gym that is open to the public for a nominal fee, free concerts, all all kinds of activities.

    I've never understood why so many in the modern world are either unable or unwilling to understand that some humans aren't heterosexual.

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    I've posted this before, but I think Howard Stern had the best response to the "Defense of Marriage" crowd: do you really want to go back to the days when gays felt compelled to marry in the hetero world, thereby creating horrible sham marriages that ended in dysfunction, deranged communication, short-changed spouses and messed-up kids?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    I've posted this before, but I think Howard Stern had the best response to the "Defense of Marriage" crowd: do you really want to go back to the days when gays felt compelled to marry in the hetero world, thereby creating horrible sham marriages that ended in dysfunction, deranged communication, short-changed spouses and messed-up kids?
    Back? We're still in those days, I assure you. An overbearing family does not need the rule of law or the endorsement of a church to corral young men and women into bad decisions.

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    What bothers the conservatives is the coopting of the word marriage for same sex couples. Marriage traditionally means a man and a woman, husband and wife. It is a duality. If another word was coined for gay marriage it might diminish the conservative reactions.

    Husband husband and wife wife does sound bit strange to me. Whatever you call it is the legal meaning that matters. That gays appear to be natural percentage of population and a few other issues like evolution are the last remaining battle cries and rally points for conservative Christians.

    The depth of the issue is evidenced by the acrimony among Christians themselves. In the 90s I watched a Larry King panel discussion between science and Christians. Bill Nye was one of the scientists. Two of the Christians ended up arguing over which one was the real Christian based on a sieonce issue.

    Us atheists are relieving ourselves in the wind so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    I've posted this before, but I think Howard Stern had the best response to the "Defense of Marriage" crowd: do you really want to go back to the days when gays felt compelled to marry in the hetero world, thereby creating horrible sham marriages that ended in dysfunction, deranged communication, short-changed spouses and messed-up kids?
    Back? We're still in those days, I assure you. An overbearing family does not need the rule of law or the endorsement of a church to corral young men and women into bad decisions.
    Rights regardless of gender and sexual orientation are new. Polls showed a majority for gay rights beginning in the 90s. Even given conservatives, gay rights has become a majority norm culturally.

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