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Thread: The theology of a matrix/simulation

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    The theology of a matrix/simulation

    Miscellaneous quotes and ideas (with visuals)
    There's a one in billions chance that this is base reality [NOT a simulation]

    - Elon Musk
    From YouTube "Is life a video game? | Elon Musk | Code Conference 2016" (2:51)
    (Is this why there is suffering?)

    Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program.

    - Agent Smith
    Modern Last Thursdayism (Last Thursdayism for the new generation)

    The idea that our matrix and our oldest memories were created last Thursday
    Why I think the Tree of Life / Sefirot is complete nonsense:

    Apparently the "argument from authority" is a logical fallacy. I have been developing a new holistic approach to esoteric symbols and found that nothing in the "Tree of Life" or Sefirot fits nicely with my system. Perhaps the source of the Sefirot was initially useful but then lost the connection with objective reality. Personally I suspect that our objective reality is that we are part of a simulation that can have paradoxes (such as those in Christianity).
    Bender, being God isn't easy... You have to use a light touch like a safecracker or a pickpocket... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

    The God Entity, Futurama
    [perhaps] some malicious demon of the utmost power and cunning has employed all his energies in order to deceive me. I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth, colours, shapes, sounds and all external things are merely the delusions of dreams which he has devised to ensnare my judgment.

    Rene Descartes 1641

    (Though our senses can be deceived, we can be sure that we exist in some sense - even if it is as a part of a simulation)
    If we are in a simulation then the supernatural is theoretically possible like it is in the Sims though delusion is a more likely explanation
    If we are in a simulation, long-lasting hell is theoretically possible. May the master of our matrix be merciful.
    Last year I had a hunch that there was an "intelligent force". Today I started referring to "the master of our matrix". It seems likely that it exists and could be at least partly an AI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program.
    Here's the crux. There would be no option to accept (or reject). If we were in a simultation, we would simply be. To "accept" something means we would necessarily have to know the difference. Iow, we would all have to be Joe Pantoliano's character--outside the matrix--being offered the blue pill, understand fully what it entailed and then have the agency to accept it.

    But, of course, once we did, we'd no longer have any such knowledge.

    Which means, if we are in a simulation, then we all already took the blue pills and there would be no wondering if we are in a simulation.

    So if we're wondering whether or not we're in a simulation, then we must not be in a simulation.

    QED
    Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi; 01-11-2020 at 07:51 PM.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    @Koyaanisqatsi:
    I have a problem with just about everything in the Matrix movies. I just liked that quote because it is possible explanation for why there is suffering.
    ...if we are in a simulation, then we all already took the blue pills and there would be no wondering if we are in a simulation...
    I think in most simulations that would exist in the future there will be no offerings of red and blue pills.

    So if we're wondering whether or not we're in a simulation, then we must not be in a simulation.
    Do you agree that in the far future many simulations will be made that are indistinguishable from reality? In most or all of the movies about simulations the people wondered whether they were in simulations - and they were...

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    I believe what will happen is we'll eventually figure out how to "download" our user illusions (our "selves") and mimic the brain/self animation to the point where we will effectively just live within little black boxes (or whatever the technology will be). I.e., we will be simulations, but it will be a choice made after we have already lived long lives.

    I don't see any point to a "grand architect" situation who essentially creates a "virtual" reality and sets it for "evolution" just to see if the ones and zeroes eventually form complex "organisms" that evolve to a point of intellectual blah blah blah.

    It's an algorithm that creates more algorithms. What would be the point? Just imagine you are that architect. You create an algorithm that in turn creates self-replicating algorithms exponentially. Why? You're bored? It would do nothing for you and be even more pointless for any of the simulations.

    Plus that STILL necessitates an objective condition at some prime point, so while all of our "lives" would be utterly pointless, there will still objectively exist at least one individual (the architect) that set our pointless algorithms into motion, so to speak. So there would have to be at least one prime reality that all other simulations are based upon.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    BTW about Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - It lets you go around the whole globe (using a server to get the satellite/3D city building data) and even zoom into blades of grass and individual leaves on trees.
    https://stormbirds.files.wordpress.c...rmandie-1.jpeg
    That shows that a simulation of the globe doesn't need the data for the whole globe on every single computer that is playing the game.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    I believe what will happen is we'll eventually figure out how to "download" our user illusions (our "selves") and mimic the brain/self animation to the point where we will effectively just live within little black boxes (or whatever the technology will be). I.e., we will be simulations, but it will be a choice made after we have already lived long lives.
    Yes... though here I'm concerned with the possible situation that we're currently in - that it is likely we're in a simulation.

    I don't see any point to a "grand architect" situation who essentially creates a "virtual" reality and sets it for "evolution" just to see if the ones and zeroes eventually form complex "organisms" that evolve to a point of intellectual blah blah blah.
    From my quote:
    "Modern Last Thursdayism - The idea that our matrix and our oldest memories were created last Thursday"

    I don't think it is necessary that our simulation explicitly simulated all of history starting with the big bang.

    It's an algorithm that creates more algorithms. What would be the point? Just imagine you are that architect. You create an algorithm that in turn creates self-replicating algorithms exponentially. Why? You're bored? It would do nothing for you and be even more pointless for any of the simulations.

    Plus that STILL necessitates an objective condition at some prime point, so while all of our "lives" would be utterly pointless, there will still objectively exist at least one individual (the architect) that set our pointless algorithms into motion, so to speak. So there would have to be at least one prime reality that all other simulations are based upon.
    Yes the simulations would be based on prime reality but they aren't necessarily very similar - e.g. maybe the evolution of pretty birds and flowers was guided rather than being copies of what was in prime reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    I'm concerned with the possible situation that we're currently in - that it is likely we're in a simulation.
    Of course the situation that each of us is in is a simulation. Each person's sensory apparatus produces the neural effect of a reality.
    We find it reassuring to assume that there exists an external reality that is shared by all of us, albeit from perspectives that are unique to each of us since each of our sets of sensory apparatus receives different inputs.
    What if that's not the case?
    So what? - that's what. Not much you can do about it, and no point in trying to do anything about it even if it was possible.
    As far as all of us being in the same simulation - no chance.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    ...As far as all of us being in the same simulation - no chance.
    Yes that is yet another way that I disagree with the Matrix movies.

    BTW here's a longer quote from Elon Musk:

    "...the games will become indistinguishable from reality. ...there would probably be billions of such computers and set-top boxes. ...it would seem to follow that the odds that we're in base reality (NOT a simulation) is one in billions"



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    Usually the earliest simulations would be filled with "philosophical zombies" - it would be less CPU/memory intensive.

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    First, assignat of numerical probabilities is impossible.

    Second, is there such a thing as pseudo theology?

    People glom onto all sorts of things, like The Matrix, and turn it into something.

    'What is reality?' has no meaning. It is unanswerable. philosophy and religion attempt to answer and provide meaning. Modern science goes one step further by quantifying observation, measurement, and experiment. But even science can not answer questions about ultimate reality.

    I have been listening to the Coast To Coast late night radio show. Mostly pseudo science and making science mystical.An endless stream of authors writing books on questions like is this all a simulation. A lot of people seem to like it.

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