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Thread: The theology of a matrix/simulation

  1. Top | #51
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    We cerate our haven and hell

    Chant 'it is all in my head...it is all in my head...'

    Good lick on your journey to discover the truth.

  2. Top | #52
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    .....OR, are you saying that "we" have never objectively existed and have no prime world and that everything is essentially ones and zeroes--guided by algorithms written by external beings? Instead of having avatars, we ARE the avatars.
    I'm saying that Elon Musk's suggestion is that eventually there'd be billions of games that are indistinguishable from reality. We might not be the player, unless many of our memories were hidden to allow greater immersion and to have a pleasant surprise when the game ends... see:

    In my attempt to make a simulation compatible with the Bible it should allow the God character (AI) to travel through time (aka retrocausality) In the Matrix movie time travel isn't possible (though they could speed up how past time travels [increasing the individual's clock speed])

    ....And just to dig down a little deeper, because of quantum physics, we already know that our universe is made up of, essentially, ones and zeroes. We call them "particles" and they evidently behave like tiny vibrating strings,
    I've heard that string theory turned out to much of a failure.

    so it's a bit different than pure binary, but still fundamental and I believe the vibration is, of course, the key to it all, because that's how things get animated and illusions are generated.

    Hence, thaumatrope.
    I don't think a simulation explicitly simulates every particle or "string". I'm talking about the type of one that would number in the billions, not like the Matrix where there is basically just one.

    Ok, but, now, just take a step back for a moment (boot up all of the above) and ask, why would any being capable of creating either a false reality or a prime reality give a shit about a book they wrote, let alone using it to test characters they created?
    I think it is extremely interesting that some people come to the conclusion that the globe is a conspiracy involving NASA (since the Bible only talks about a flat earth) or that genocide in the OT was perfectly just and loving. Or even eternal torture is perfectly just and holy:


    I can't really imagine delusions for apparently mentally healthy people to be much worse. This topic can lead to a whole career of related books, etc. A main feature of a simulation could involve an intellectual journey with ambiguous clues.

    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist
    Perhaps slavery and genocide were commanded in the Bible as a test to see if people will obey an apparent divine authority or whether they will look to their own "sinful wisdom" or still believe in Bible literalism and try to reconcile it with mainstream morality.
    To what purpose? It couldn't serve the characters created in a video game, because they have no agency.
    I thought advanced AI could have agency.

    It couldn't serve the creators of the video game, because in order to create it in the first place, they would have to already know its parameters and what would obtain.
    If the simulation allows time travel and retrocausality then that could help. Though I think most of the simulations Elon Musk would be talking about wouldn't be very compatible with retrocausality.

    But even if they didn't know all of the parameters or exactly what would obtain and therefore needed to "test" it, then they would necessarily need to test it on something that had full agency separate to them, not simply be abstract reflections of them.
    I think AI can have "full agency".

    ......We MUST have the full knowledge of the creators in regard to what "morality" would entail AND be able to make a choice without fear of retribution for a "wrong" decision in order to make a free agency choice that would in turn serve the creators in any way (not ourselves).
    No I think the whole purpose is to make it ambiguous - so that there are at least 3 choices that seem to make a lot of sense. So agreeing with genocide in the Bible isn't necessarily "moral" - you might have your own morals.

    That's what a "test" entails; not the ability of the student to learn, the ability of the teacher to teach. But punishing us for a teacher's failing is wrong.
    There is the threat of hell. It doesn't necessarily have to be real or at least not eternal.

    So, the "sinful wisdom" or whatever you wish to call it cannot in any way serve the characters. It's not applicable to them; it's only applicable to the creators. So, you're necessarily positing that God is the sinner and that "he" created all of us to inform his own sin and how he should act, not any of us.
    My Bible test is meant to be a paradox with no clear right or wrong answers. e.g. atheists believe that them going to hell isn't true so therefore they can make the claim that genocide in the OT is immoral.

    But that then immediately eliminates all omni-capabilities except the ability to blindly generate abstract reflections of himself, but, again, ONLY TO BENEFIT HIMSELF. Because HE isn't perfect; because HE is the broken sinner.
    In the simulation I'm talking about, literalist Christians have the impression that the Bible is 100% true. This isn't necessarily true.

    It depends on your point of view and which of the three main approaches to the Bible you have.

    The simulation I'm talking about doesn't always have objective good or evil - it isn't clear which of the three main options is more moral than the other. I mean Bible literalists would say that clearly the command for slavery and genocide was perfectly moral.

  3. Top | #53
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    @Koyaanisqatsi:
    This talks about characters having free-will, or their own perception of free-will...

  4. Top | #54
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    About the presence of an intelligent force in my life.... in January 2019 I paid $500 to register a company related to fat loss.
    I also registered .diet and .game domains...

    I later found out that it costs $100-$300 to renew .diet domains:
    https://tld-list.com/tld/diet

    and $310-$940 to renew .game domains:
    https://tld-list.com/tld/game

    i.e. I made very bad financial decisions - though I thought it could make me a million dollars.

    Eventually I realised it only costs $13-$34 to renew .games domains.
    https://tld-list.com/tld/games

    So I registered lifes.games (I'm really pleased with the domain name and renewal price)

    I based the webpages off of what I created for the fat loss websites (which are now gone because the domains expired a couple of days ago)

    Here is a page I made about Flight Simulator 2020

    Eventually I'll have pages for theology, etc.

  5. Top | #55
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that Heaven was made before humans. I was also under the impression that it had things like human-like angels, swords, and gold thrones, etc.


    Why is it that humans ended up having gold thrones and swords? Because they copied Heaven? Or are stories about Heaven based on bronze-age imaginations? Or God guided humans to invent swords, etc?


    If this is a simulation then Heaven could be based on reality or stories that are outside the simulation. Both angels and humans could be based on bodies of beings (possibly fictional) outside the simulation.
    Last edited by excreationist; 01-19-2020 at 12:48 PM.

  6. Top | #56
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    I think for a God within a simulation to be as compatible with Christianity as possible he would be an AI. It would allow him to be "perfect". So then he would have a creator (before God created our simulation). The trinity could be programmed in. He would be omni everything. Jesus could become God incarnate. BTW in the Matrix movies, the Architect and the Oracle are AIs.

  7. Top | #57
    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    I'm working on a web page: "The Bible Test" - is it just a test of your character?
    https://www.lifesplayer.com/bible.php
    Perhaps an intelligent force helped guide the Bible's writers to test the character of its readers. The three main approaches to the Bible are: it is 100% true and moral, or some of the seemingly historical parts never happened, or it is just a collection of myths and legends that weren't inspired at all.

    I think there are good reasons to believe each of these possibilities though any seemingly supernatural events are likely to be explained by coincidence, delusion or hallucinations.

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