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Thread: Why do people believe in hell?

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    ruby sparks:

    If you wanted to understand its conclusion you should read some of the 420 pages... or at least read through https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    For everyone that thinks that the Bible clearly says hell lasts forever, I suggest you look into these things:


    https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/


    I think there are about 80 related verses, but the previous link only looks at some of the main ones....


    Then there's this: (I think it also looks at both sides of the issue)
    https://www.koorong.com/product/the-..._9781608999309


    That is from a Christian book store - note it has three 5 star reviews including people who originally believed in eternal hell....
    OT theology, Judaism, is not really compatible with Christian theology regardless of the efforts to make it so.

  3. Top | #153
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    That's strange. Jesus himself quotes from the OT, and the NT centre's around Jesus and his teachings + quotes. Some judaic teachings (Pharisees & co.) are not compitable with the Prophets of the OT.

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    Cheers excreationist, going to go through your links now and learn something.

  5. Top | #155
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    Hell has to be as 9ntimidating and fear inspiring as p[ossible.

    It would not have much value if the biblee said you spend eternity some place but it isn't too bad. It can get warm but there is no air conditioning.

  6. Top | #156
    Super Moderator ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    ruby sparks:

    If you wanted to understand its conclusion you should read some of the 420 pages... or at least read through https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/
    Very interesting. Shows just what can be concocted by only taking into account certain bits of the texts and ignoring others. A highly unusual theological technique, to be sure, but convincing and effective nonetheless.

  7. Top | #157
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    That's strange. Jesus himself quotes from the OT, and the NT centre's around Jesus and his teachings + quotes. Some judaic teachings (Pharisees & co.) are not compitable with the Prophets of the OT.
    Jesus quotes nothing because he wrote nothing. Anonymous Christian writers have Jesus quoting the OT and referring to the prophets.

    Two different things.

    It was the writers of the gospel who tried to weave Jesus into the narrative, but this was rejected by orthodox Judaism.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    ruby sparks:

    If you wanted to understand its conclusion you should read some of the 420 pages... or at least read through https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/
    Very interesting. Shows just what can be concocted by only taking into account certain bits of the texts and ignoring others. A highly unusual theological technique, to be sure, but convincing and effective nonetheless.
    Note that there are three reviews which are from Christians who have actually read the book and they all give 5 star reviews - some of them even originally believed in eternal hell... so you're assuming you're more knowledgeable about the book than they are?

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    There are contradictions. There are verses that clearly describe hell as eternal punishment, while others suggest annihilation or separation from God, hence confusion that has endured for two thousand years. Many or even most early Christians believed in eternal torment. Gnostics relegated the god of the bible to the status of 'evil demiurge.'

  10. Top | #160
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    There are contradictions. There are verses that clearly describe hell as eternal punishment, while others suggest annihilation or separation from God, hence confusion that has endured for two thousand years. Many or even most early Christians believed in eternal torment. Gnostics relegated the god of the bible to the status of 'evil demiurge.'
    I think Fudge's book looks into arguments for eternal hell as well and isn't completely dogmatic about his conclusion.
    For a free resource see:

    https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/
    The adjectives "many" and "few" in Luke 12 could not be used if eternal conscious torment were what He was teaching here. He would have used "heavier" and "lighter" if the duration of conscience sufferings were eternal. So according to Yeshua's (Jesus") own words, some will have "many stripes" (Hitler types) and some will have "few stripes" (only God knows).

    ....

    Again, it is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. (Matthew 25:46) Death is the punishment; and it lasts forever. That is why it is called eternal punishment. It is a punishment with everlasting effects. Remember, Jesus Himself tells us that the fire was never made for humans, it was "prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). Humans, however, will be destroyed there-cremated according to Isaiah 66:24.

    ....

    But what is the meaning of the word "destroy"? Perhaps it means eternal torment? You certainly have to import an alien meaning to the definition of the word "destroy" (Gk: apollumi) if it means eternal torture. It is never directly translated this way in any New Testament writings. Never.

    .....

    "it would seem strange...if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed...it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing."

    ......

    But what about the word "forever"; doesn't the text say torment will go on forever? No. Read it very carefully. It clearly says "the smoke" will rise forever. Smoke rising forever is much different than torment going on forever.


    Note this is a very small excerpt on that website, and that site is a very small version of that 420 page book.

    If you are truly open-minded you should read that website rather than assuming that the traditional view of the church is correct. At the most there are 1 or 2 passages that seem to suggest eternal torment but when you look into it deeply they can seem to be resolved. Also that website has a different author to the book and the website is trying to prove "conditional immortality".

    edit: I see you were open to there being some verses that are against the idea of eternal hell.
    Last edited by excreationist; 01-17-2020 at 02:57 AM.

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