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Thread: Are Bernie and Warren finally going to clash?

  1. Top | #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Warren’s face registered shock at Bernie’s denial and I don’t think that was faked.
    Why not ? She faked she was native American for years with ease.
    Bullshit.
    Bullshit yourself, women fake it all the time.

  2. Top | #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    Bullshit.
    Bullshit yourself, women fake it all the time.
    ^personal experience?

  3. Top | #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    Bullshit.
    Bullshit yourself, women fake it all the time.
    I’m sure that is your experience.

  4. Top | #164
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    With Warren's vote for Trump's military budget, his Iran sanctions, and now his trade deal so awful that Chuck Schumer didn't even vote for it, can we all stop pretending she and Bernie share political agenda just because they want to raise your taxes? It's about damn time the rift between them became visible, even though it shouldn't have happened like this. Bernie is a liberal, but one with socialist leanings and a genuine lifelong dedication to improving people's lives (even though he has sometimes sought to improve them at the expense of innocent people elsewhere in the world, like all liberals). At this point, Warren has revealed herself to be a shrewd, triangulating opportunist with unreliable instincts and thin skin, even as she pushes her consumer-focused brand of regulatory capitalism upon irritated bankers.

    I don't think she belongs in the same category as Bernie, and if I were him, I would use this as an opportunity to pre-emptively select Rashida Tlaib as his eventual running mate if he gets the nomination. The first Jewish president, with a Palestinian woman with actual progressive ideals as VP. Wouldn't that be something?

    The primary election is a winner-take-all race, and politics is about wielding power. Every candidate who still thinks the problem with our country is how divisive everything has gotten is not going to fight for you when push comes to shove, because they abhor fighting. They won't stake a firm ideological territory and rally a popular movement to push it through, because to them, having ideological convictions is what must be avoided at all costs. Bernie is playing a game on two fronts: the campaign for office and the rousing of a mass movement. If Bernie wins, his supporters celebrate for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. If Bernie loses, his supporters cry for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. It's just a lot easier to do that when the POTUS is on your side rather than the side of the rich, the warmongers, the financiers, and the policy wonks. Either way, we aren't going anywhere.

    The left in America needs to realize this, and come to terms with the very real possibility that Bernie gets the most votes in the primary and is kneecapped at the convention. He was never the one who was going to get everything done anyway, and the sooner we acknowledge that and start forging real political power at the grassroots level, the better. AOC came under fire recently for saying, rightly, that in any other country she and Joe Biden would not be in the same political party. She's absolutely correct, and the 2020's are going to be the decade where those contradictions get hashed out, as a resurgent socialist sentiment rises to prominence and the next generation lines up to take part in it. But it won't happen because of a presidential election. The election going Bernie's way will just be a sign that it has already happened to a significant degree, and will carry on whether he's president or not.

  5. Top | #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    Bullshit.
    Bullshit yourself, women fake it all the time.
    I’m sure that is your experience.
    You are sure of lots of things and yet you have been proven to be not just wrong but spectacularly wrong on just about everything.

  6. Top | #166
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  7. Top | #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    I’m sure that is your experience.
    You are sure of lots of things and yet you have been proven to be not just wrong but spectacularly wrong on just about everything.
    Enjoy your delusions. Hope they keep you warm at night.

  8. Top | #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    With Warren's vote for Trump's military budget, his Iran sanctions, and now his trade deal so awful that Chuck Schumer didn't even vote for it, can we all stop pretending she and Bernie share political agenda just because they want to raise your taxes?
    They are both on the left wing of the Demcratic Party, but yes, they are quite different.
    Bernie is more left economically and more opposed to US foreign policy, preferring to side with the likes of Iran.
    Warren in turn is more into gender/race identity politics.

    It's about damn time the rift between them became visible, even though it shouldn't have happened like this. Bernie is a liberal, but one with socialist leanings and a genuine lifelong dedication to improving people's lives (even though he has sometimes sought to improve them at the expense of innocent people elsewhere in the world, like all liberals).
    What are you referring to here?

    I don't think she belongs in the same category as Bernie, and if I were him, I would use this as an opportunity to pre-emptively select Rashida Tlaib as his eventual running mate if he gets the nomination. The first Jewish president, with a Palestinian woman with actual progressive ideals as VP. Wouldn't that be something?
    Selecting a running mate during the primaries is a sure sign of a struggling campaign.

    And Rashida Tlaib would be a horrible choice anyway. She is a Palestinian extremist who wants to destroy Israel.
    Otherwise, she is also quite left-wing, being part of the "squad" and the DSA. Thus she would not provide any meaningful contrast to Bernie, nor would she make any independents more likely to vote for the ticket.

    Bernie is playing a game on two fronts: the campaign for office and the rousing of a mass movement. If Bernie wins, his supporters celebrate for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. If Bernie loses, his supporters cry for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. It's just a lot easier to do that when the POTUS is on your side rather than the side of the rich, the warmongers, the financiers, and the policy wonks. Either way, we aren't going anywhere.
    It will probably fizzle out once Bernie himself leaves the stage.

    The left in America needs to realize this, and come to terms with the very real possibility that Bernie gets the most votes in the primary and is kneecapped at the convention.
    Well, plurality is not the same as majority. Imagine the situation where Bernie gets 35%, Biden 30%, Warren 20% and the rest share the remaining 15% of the delegates. Does that mean Bernie must be given the nod? No, because 65% of delegates, a majority, are pledged to somebody else. Now, if the left-wing block were to hold together, they would have 55% combined and thus the majority. But I would say that most of the "rest" delegates and a significant enough number of Bernie and Warren delegates pick Biden to put him in the majority. And then you have the superdelegates.
    So yes, a contested convention would favor Biden. I would not call it kneecapping though.

    He was never the one who was going to get everything done anyway, and the sooner we acknowledge that and start forging real political power at the grassroots level, the better.
    Yeah, good luck with that.

    AOC came under fire recently for saying, rightly, that in any other country she and Joe Biden would not be in the same political party. She's absolutely correct, and the 2020's are going to be the decade where those contradictions get hashed out, as a resurgent socialist sentiment rises to prominence and the next generation lines up to take part in it.
    Hopefully not. Socialism is a disaster. And yes, in a multiparty system AOC would be in a different party than Biden. But Biden would be in the major party while AOC would be in one of the fringe parties.

    But it won't happen because of a presidential election. The election going Bernie's way will just be a sign that it has already happened to a significant degree, and will carry on whether he's president or not.
    I think this Millennial infatuation with socialism is a fad.

  9. Top | #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    They are both on the left wing of the Demcratic Party, but yes, they are quite different.
    Bernie is more left economically and more opposed to US foreign policy, preferring to side with the likes of Iran.
    Warren in turn is more into gender/race identity politics.


    What are you referring to here?

    I don't think she belongs in the same category as Bernie, and if I were him, I would use this as an opportunity to pre-emptively select Rashida Tlaib as his eventual running mate if he gets the nomination. The first Jewish president, with a Palestinian woman with actual progressive ideals as VP. Wouldn't that be something?
    Selecting a running mate during the primaries is a sure sign of a struggling campaign.

    And Rashida Tlaib would be a horrible choice anyway. She is a Palestinian extremist who wants to destroy Israel.
    Otherwise, she is also quite left-wing, being part of the "squad" and the DSA. Thus she would not provide any meaningful contrast to Bernie, nor would she make any independents more likely to vote for the ticket.

    Bernie is playing a game on two fronts: the campaign for office and the rousing of a mass movement. If Bernie wins, his supporters celebrate for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. If Bernie loses, his supporters cry for a night and then dramatically escalate their ongoing efforts. It's just a lot easier to do that when the POTUS is on your side rather than the side of the rich, the warmongers, the financiers, and the policy wonks. Either way, we aren't going anywhere.
    It will probably fizzle out once Bernie himself leaves the stage.

    The left in America needs to realize this, and come to terms with the very real possibility that Bernie gets the most votes in the primary and is kneecapped at the convention.
    Well, plurality is not the same as majority. Imagine the situation where Bernie gets 35%, Biden 30%, Warren 20% and the rest share the remaining 15% of the delegates. Does that mean Bernie must be given the nod? No, because 65% of delegates, a majority, are pledged to somebody else. Now, if the left-wing block were to hold together, they would have 55% combined and thus the majority. But I would say that most of the "rest" delegates and a significant enough number of Bernie and Warren delegates pick Biden to put him in the majority. And then you have the superdelegates.
    So yes, a contested convention would favor Biden. I would not call it kneecapping though.

    He was never the one who was going to get everything done anyway, and the sooner we acknowledge that and start forging real political power at the grassroots level, the better.
    Yeah, good luck with that.

    AOC came under fire recently for saying, rightly, that in any other country she and Joe Biden would not be in the same political party. She's absolutely correct, and the 2020's are going to be the decade where those contradictions get hashed out, as a resurgent socialist sentiment rises to prominence and the next generation lines up to take part in it.
    Hopefully not. Socialism is a disaster. And yes, in a multiparty system AOC would be in a different party than Biden. But Biden would be in the major party while AOC would be in one of the fringe parties.

    But it won't happen because of a presidential election. The election going Bernie's way will just be a sign that it has already happened to a significant degree, and will carry on whether he's president or not.
    I think this Millennial infatuation with socialism is a fad.
    Warren isn’t ‘more into identity politics.’ She’s a woman. Get over it.

  10. Top | #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Warren isn’t ‘more into identity politics.’ She’s a woman. Get over it.
    She is definitely very much into identity politics. It's not that she is a woman, as she is also heavily into racial identity politics. Examples: she supports "reparations" for blacks and giving Indians veto power over infrastructure projects.

    Also, it is good practice that when responding to a particular point to only quote that part and not the entire post. Especially when there are images and/or the post is long. You should have deleted everything past the first three lines.

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