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Thread: Why YEC can seem plausible

  1. Top | #601
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.
    A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....
    People haven't changed that much. They didn't know those things, but if they had known, they could easily have understood.

    Indeed, understanding is very straightforward. It took astonishing genius to come up with Newton's Laws, or Einstein's theories of Relativity, or any of hundreds of really difficult and complex ideas that have been developed in the last few centuries.

    But from the shoulders of these giants, a bunch of very ordinary undergraduates, or even high school students, can come to understand these things. It's not particularly impressive. And these students don't even have the advantage of teachers who are omnicognisant gods. If it's understandable to students today, it would have been understandable to students in the Bronze Age.

    So I call 'bullshit' on the notion that Bronze Age people couldn't understand anything that people today can. They lacked opportunity, not ability.

  2. Top | #602
    Veteran Member funinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.
    A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....
    People haven't changed that much. They didn't know those things, but if they had known, they could easily have understood.

    Indeed, understanding is very straightforward. It took astonishing genius to come up with Newton's Laws, or Einstein's theories of Relativity, or any of hundreds of really difficult and complex ideas that have been developed in the last few centuries.

    But from the shoulders of these giants, a bunch of very ordinary undergraduates, or even high school students, can come to understand these things. It's not particularly impressive. And these students don't even have the advantage of teachers who are omnicognisant gods. If it's understandable to students today, it would have been understandable to students in the Bronze Age.

    So I call 'bullshit' on the notion that Bronze Age people couldn't understand anything that people today can. They lacked opportunity, not ability.
    Yazbutt...Yahweh did share with these Bronze age people such important things as not to eat shellfish, not to mix fabric, and most importantly not to mix seed types in your vinyard.

  3. Top | #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.
    A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....
    Yes, that is definitely a believable alternative to 'try and help raise your chosen people above the rest by imparting with them secret knowledge of how the world really works and let them become masters of irrigation and hydrology'.

  4. Top | #604
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    Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
    1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
    2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
    3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

    Where were they gonna find room for:
    1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
    2. Genocide -- let's not.
    3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
    4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.
    P.S. You can have as long a foreskin as you want. You can use it as a tote bag. I don't care. Please don't think I care.
    Last edited by ideologyhunter; 07-14-2021 at 04:10 PM.

  5. Top | #605
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.
    A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....
    That’s a counter argument based on the assumption of a hapless, crippled god. One that is either uninterested or incapable of raising the level of people’s understanding. It would have been easy to cause them to understand the mechanisms by which disease spreads, eclipses occur and floods occur. But no - the summbich let almost all them drown along with almost all the innocent animals. And all to no effect, since it didn’t modify their sinful behavior in the least.
    He could have at least mentioned that such things could be understood.
    What a Dick.

  6. Top | #606
    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
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    It's a common argument among Biblical Literalists that the Bible contains advanced scientific truths. This, they say, is evidence that scripture is divinely inspired, because Bronze Age authors could not have uncovered these truths on their own.

    So Jehovah either imparted scientific concepts to biblical authors beyond their ability, or he masked scientific concepts from them so that they don't write above their level of understanding.

    But it can't be both.

  7. Top | #607
    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
    1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
    2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
    3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

    Where were they gonna find room for:
    1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
    2. Genocide -- let's not.
    3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
    4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.


    One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."

    I'm thinking, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of humans, a better commandment would have been "Wash your hands before eating, praying, or practicing healing." You get to save countless lives from infection, and would likely kickstart the development of germ theory by centuries.

  8. Top | #608
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
    1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
    2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
    3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

    Where were they gonna find room for:
    1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
    2. Genocide -- let's not.
    3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
    4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.


    One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."

    I'm thinking, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of humans, a better commandment would have been "Wash your hands before eating, praying, or practicing healing." You get to save countless lives from infection, and would likely kickstart the development of germ theory by centuries.
    No, no, don't boil veal in ITS MOTHER'S milk. It's not a health thing, it's a 'adding insult to injury' thing.

    It could have led to a long history of tracking databases, matching mother and offspring even after changes in ownership and storage locations. But instead, the Hebrews adopted a wide safety margin and don't mix any meat with any dairy.

  9. Top | #609
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    Well, there goes the head cheese milkshake.

  10. Top | #610
    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.
    A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....
    That’s a counter argument based on the assumption of a hapless, crippled god. One that is either uninterested or incapable of raising the level of people’s understanding. It would have been easy to cause them to understand the mechanisms by which disease spreads, eclipses occur and floods occur. But no - the summbich let almost all them drown along with almost all the innocent animals. And all to no effect, since it didn’t modify their sinful behavior in the least.
    He could have at least mentioned that such things could be understood.
    What a Dick.
    It's the argument that bible worshipers are actually Satan worshipers. The only difference between the two, generally speaking, is that one disobeys the other to the point of thinking for itself. We certainly don't want people going around doing that.

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