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Thread: Why YEC can seem plausible

  1. Top | #11
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Right, because if something could've always existed, what makes more sense for that something to be: matter in a state of perpetual mutation or a three-part deity with super powers who impregnated his own mommy?
    I am saying that an intelligent force has always existed throughout the history of a theoretical simulation. I don't think it has literally existed for an infinite amount of time. I'm not sure about the idea of the virgin birth since it mostly is only mentioned in Matthew and Luke - see:
    https://uncensored-christmas.sky-wal.../read-it/#mary

    Also MLK didn't seem to believe in the Virgin Birth:

    http://discerninghistory.com/2018/04...r-a-christian/

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    P.S. About flat earthers - often they use the Bible as evidence - and I think according to the Bible the earth seems to be flat, not a globe. This shows that the Bible isn't 100% literally true though otherwise it can seem to be to YECs.
    BTW there might be up to 200 related Bible verses related to a flat earth:
    https://www.flatearthdoctrine.com/fl...th-scriptures/

    About Answers In Genesis:
    https://answersingenesis.org/astrono...he-earth-flat/

    It is against the idea of a flat earth though it only seems to give scientific reasons and not Biblical reasons (perhaps due no good Biblical arguments that are against a flat earth)

    A pro-globe view of Isaiah 40:22:A ball seen at a distance looks like a circle. Other people have argued that the verse in Job is better translated to mean sphere rather than circle.


    Isaiah 40:22
    He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
    and its people are like grasshoppers.
    He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
    and spreads them out like a tent to live in.​


    "Above" only makes sense if the earth is flat. If it is a ball then the throne would be "below" some of the people. "Like grasshoppers" implies that the people look very small. If the earth is a ball some of the people would be hidden from view due to the earth being in the way. The sky being stretched like a tent implies a flat surface. If it is a ball it is more like a cocoon.

  3. Top | #13
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    About Christian flat earthers:

    1 Corinthians has many verses that talk about God's wisdom vs human/worldly wisdom....
    https://www.biblegateway.com/quickse...egin=53&end=53

    Christian flat earthers would believe that the verses that suggest a flat earth are God's wisdom. Arguments against a flat earth rely on human wisdom rather than Bible verses.

    I find it interesting that people in modern times with space travel can disagree about such a seemingly obvious thing (according to worldly wisdom) - it is a test of faith...

    I don't think there being so many verses about God's vs worldly wisdom is an accident...

    This test is related to people's primary purpose in life... (their relationship with God, etc) and about whether there is actually a huge conspiracy involving NASA, etc. It makes for an interesting plot in their life.

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    About Christian flat earthers:

    1 Corinthians has many verses that talk about God's wisdom vs human/worldly wisdom....
    https://www.biblegateway.com/quickse...egin=53&end=53

    Christian flat earthers would believe that the verses that suggest a flat earth are God's wisdom. Arguments against a flat earth rely on human wisdom rather than Bible verses.

    I find it interesting that people in modern times with space travel can disagree about such a seemingly obvious thing (according to worldly wisdom) - it is a test of faith...

    I don't think there being so many verses about God's vs worldly wisdom is an accident...

    This test is related to people's primary purpose in life... (their relationship with God, etc) and about whether there is actually a huge conspiracy involving NASA, etc. It makes for an interesting plot in their life.
    Is it a test of faith or is it an inability to make a simple observation? Looks more like the workings of natural selection than a test of faith.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Is it a test of faith or is it an inability to make a simple observation? Looks more like the workings of natural selection than a test of faith.
    Christian flat earthers involve the "argument from authority" (God said it and he would know). Could you explain what you mean by "natural selection"? Do flat earthers have an easier or better life?

    There are many verses that criticise worldly wisdom and this combines with the seemingly 100% rate of verses agreeing with the idea of a flat earth. Note that some Greeks even accurately measured the size of the earth - but that would be considered earthly/human wisdom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Is it a test of faith or is it an inability to make a simple observation? Looks more like the workings of natural selection than a test of faith.
    Christian flat earthers involve the "argument from authority" (God said it and he would know). Could you explain what you mean by "natural selection"? Do flat earthers have an easier or better life?

    There are many verses that criticise worldly wisdom and this combines with the seemingly 100% rate of verses agreeing with the idea of a flat earth. Note that some Greeks even accurately measured the size of the earth - but that would be considered earthly/human wisdom.
    Natural selection in the scientific sense as it is used to discuss evolution. If an organism does not make an accurate observation of it's environment that is different from an organism that makes an accurate observation of its environment. The former would seem to me to be at a disadvantage, but of course that ultimately depends on the environment.

    For example, if my brain is markedly delusional I am at a survival disadvantage because it puts me in danger, I will misinterpret my environment, my information will not be accurate. Again, that all depends on the environment and chance.

    To me, a flat earther isn't able to interpret the environment correctly at least on a specific point. Why? It's the brain and how it's working. I'm a bit like a venomous snake handler.
    Last edited by T.G.G. Moogly; 01-20-2020 at 04:52 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. Top | #17
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    While both require an enormous feat of intellectual dishonesty, YEC arguably requires no more and perhaps less intellectual dishonesty than the type of theistic evolution that most non-YEC monotheists believe in. YEC basically requires two assumptions, that the Bible is a reliable source of factual information and that empirical science is not a reliable method of discovering what occurred in in the distant past because there are no recorded direct observations of those events in question. These two general assumptions justify any aspect of science that YECers need to reject and make their worldview internally coherent. Other monotheists don't need to hold either of these assumptions, however, they must ignore the clear logical contradiction between human evolution and a human-centric conception of God, and between the facts of random contingency and the notion that humans or any modern creatures was planned or any more than an unintended happenstance byproduct of a hands-off creator who merely kicked things off. IOW, anything beyond the most minimalist form of deism where God plays no role beyond bio-genesis is logically incompatible with core aspects of evolutionary science. Thus almost all theistic evolutionists merely pretend to accept enough science to provide intellectual cover while contradicting themselves by selectively rejecting those aspects of evolution and it's implications that don't fit with their theism. One could argue that requires more vigilant acts of self delusions, self contradiction, and intellectual dishonesty than a wholesale rejection that science has any legitimacy on the question of ancient biological history and origins.

    And while minimalist deism can be logically compatible with evolution, it isn't compatible with the increasing mountain of science showing that the kind of will and mental functions that even minimal deism assumes are byproduct of a particular arrangement of matter (e.g., the living brain). Thus, any such deity would itself necessarily be material in some way and subject to rather than preceding or establishing the principles of the material universe.

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    Why is it being called Young Earth Creationism when it's just Anti-scientific Creationism?

  9. Top | #19
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Why is it being called Young Earth Creationism when it's just Anti-scientific Creationism?
    Ah, but it's not anti-TRUE Science. Just anti-all-the-science-that-disagrees-with-their-desired-confusions.
    As identified by supporting YECism.

  10. Top | #20
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    I'm not sure in which universe a flat earth would or could be possible. The ancient Greeks worked out the shape of the Earth over two thousand years ago.

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