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Thread: Biden and Bolton BOTH should have to testify.

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    Veteran Member Lumpenproletariat's Avatar
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    Biden and Bolton BOTH should have to testify.

    Also Giuliani, and others.


    Both sides, Reds and Blues, are liars -- both Trumpsters and Trump-haters. Both want to cover up the truth and prevent witnesses who would hurt their side in the impeachment proceedings.

    Anyone honest wants ALL witnesses to testify, be subpoenaed if necessary, no matter which side is hurt -- and all testimony heard, including that relating to the Biden corruption.

    If the Bidens were forced to testify, and also the Republicans who directly heard Trump speak his quid-pro-quo, then it's likely both Trump and Biden would be proved guilty. I.e.,

    Trump guilty of abusing his office, as charged -- Biden guilty of influence-peddling.

    Even if influence-peddling is not officially a criminal violation and no criminal prosecution is possible, still this abuse of office is a relevant part of the impeachment case and should be exposed and condemned rather than swept aside or covered up to prevent embarrassment to Biden. His quid-pro-quo to have a Ukrainian investigator fired, serving his personal benefit, is an abuse of the Vice Presidential office similar to Trump's quid-pro-quo (even if it's not "the same").

    It's appropriate for ALL corruption on either side to be exposed. It is proper for any abuses of power or violations related to the case to be exposed, even though not officially being prosecuted.

    I.e., in a legal case it is appropriate to expose related criminals or wrong-doers (the Bidens) other than the one being prosecuted (Trump), and the ones exposed then made subject to the appropriate legal actions against them, even if it's only investigation on suspicion of a criminal act.

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    Learn your Constitution!

    This isn't a Biden-Trump trial. It's a Constitutional impeachment trial where Trump has to defend himself. Therefore, Biden doesn't NECESSARILY have to be a witness even if he or his son or the combination of the two are guilty of some kind of corruption. Twitler used his office and taxpayer funds to go after a political opponent, regardless of guilty, which is at minimum a conflict of interest but since it involves way more, it's worse--bribery and treason against democracy itself.

    Now supposing that Bidens are reasonably guilty of something, then they have a different legal process for discovering this. Such evidence needs to comply with the 4th amendment inasmuch as it applies to national boundaries and persons. That means investigators write up subpoenas involving probable cause for items/documents that are specified and the right people are informed so that the Biden(s) can defend themselves in a court of law later. That court of law has a DIFFERENT set of procedures than a Presidential impeachment trial.

    End of Story!

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    It's a Constitutional impeachment trial where Trump has to defend himself.
    And we can't forget, what he's to defend himself about is Inappropriately using his office, and government resources, to make political difficulties for a political rival.
    Having either Biden testify would be an inappropriate use of the Impeachment trial to make political difficulty for his political rival.

    I'd really like to think this was all some genius performance art. I mean, he did it. Then he did it on national television. Then he wants to do it again, on National TV, as part of the trial for doing it...

    Maybe we should let him do it just to see where this goes? How does he top this? Does he pardon himself for doing it three fucking times? While insisting there was nothing wrong with doing it? Make it a campaign promise, 'if re-elected I will demand Japan, Somalia, Lichtenstein, and Mexico investigate Biden...'

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Also Giuliani, and others.


    Both sides, Reds and Blues, are liars -- both Trumpsters and Trump-haters. Both want to cover up the truth and prevent witnesses who would hurt their side in the impeachment proceedings.

    Anyone honest wants ALL witnesses to testify, be subpoenaed if necessary, no matter which side is hurt -- and all testimony heard, including that relating to the Biden corruption.

    If the Bidens were forced to testify, and also the Republicans who directly heard Trump speak his quid-pro-quo, then it's likely both Trump and Biden would be proved guilty. I.e.,

    Trump guilty of abusing his office, as charged -- Biden guilty of influence-peddling.

    <snip>.
    The Biden testimony demand is a bluff. It is a desperate attempt to muddy the waters. The President now has an Attorney General who will do his bidding. It's a simple matter for AG Barr to launch an investigation and convene a Grand Jury to investigate both Joe and Hunter Biden, if he thought there were any grounds. This is just the investigation. It doesn't have to lead anywhere, or reveal wrong doing. GOP led investigations never do. It just has to keep people distracted and rationalize the remaining support for an incompetent President.

    Barr hasn't done this and there is one simple reason. President Trump has exhausted his supply of people willing to face prison on his behalf. There is no one left willing to perjure themselves to protect him from his own actions.

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    Why would Biden have to testify? He doesn't actually have anything to do with this outside of Russian propaganda.

    I get that you've all sold your country to Putin, but maybe try and be a little discreet about it?

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    It is telling that Trump didn't want an investigation of Hunter Biden, he only wanted a public announcement of the opening of an investigation on American TV. Typically there is no public announcement of an investigation, so what he wanted would be unusual.

    My guess is that Trump wanted the barest excuse to be able to yell "Lock him up" at every rally he holds, a really fine point for a man who has told more than 14,000 lies since he has been in office, his supporters are well past demanding the truth from him at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Also Giuliani, and others.Both sides, Reds and Blues, are liars -- both Trumpsters and Trump-haters. Both want to cover up the truth and prevent witnesses who would hurt their side in the impeachment proceedings..
    Umm...what lies have the Democrats been spreading about Trump?

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    To any question asked of Biden from his lawyer, "Objection. Relevance. Client has no knowledge of the facts surrounding the charges of Obstruction or Abuse of Power".

    If you would like Biden to answer questions about something in a criminal trial, you will have to find a criminal charge that has anything to do with his actions.

    I'd be interested to know what questions you would ask either of the Bidens that has relevance to the Articles of Impeachment.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    The bizarre thing about this thread is it proposes that the removal of Trump from office is acceptable if a comparable Democrat's career is destroyed at the same time.

    Has GOP political philosophy come to the point that anything that weakens a Democrat is good, no matter what damage it does to their side?

    Or is it just a kamikaze tactic to inflict as much damage possible before inevitable defeat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    The bizarre thing about this thread is it proposes that the removal of Trump from office is acceptable if a comparable Democrat's career is destroyed at the same time.

    Has GOP political philosophy come to the point that anything that weakens a Democrat is good, no matter what damage it does to their side?

    Or is it just a kamikaze tactic to inflict as much damage possible before inevitable defeat?
    It's an attempt to get the Dems to back off on the idea of calling witnesses in a trial where a Republican stands to lose. That have to try SOMETHING to get out of the mess they created in some way other than the complete annihilation of their party.

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