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Thread: "Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"

  1. Top | #821
    Contributor blastula's Avatar
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    All those distinctions are in the study.

  2. Top | #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    There should be no question of the safety of hydroxychloroquine used as a prophylaxis. It has been given to many millions as a prophylaxis for malaria over the last several decades. Whether it is useful to ameliorate the symptoms of the coronavirus seems to be debatable, some doctors swear by it and others say it is useless.
    It's been used but even at the prophylaxis dose it's known for nasty side effects.
    Yes a small percentage of the population have negative reaction to hydroxychloroquine. But then a small percentage of the population have a severe negative reaction to aspirin, a small percentage of the population have a severe negative reaction to penicillin, there is even a small percentage of the population that have a really severe negative reaction to peanuts.
    Chloroquine in any form has a lot higher side effect rate than most drugs.

  3. Top | #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by George S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfingers View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/healt...day/index.html

    Seriously ill Covid-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were more likely to die or develop dangerous heart arrhythmias, according to a large observational study published Friday in the medical journal The Lancet.

    Researchers looked at data from more than 96,000 Covid-19 patients from 671 hospitals. All were hospitalized from late December to mid-April and had died or been discharged by April 21. Just below 15,000 were treated with the antimalarial drugs hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, or one of those drugs combined with an antibiotic.

    Those treatments were linked with a higher risk of dying in the hospital, the study found. About 1 in 6 patients treated with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine alone died in the hospital, compared to 1 in 11 patients in the control group.
    If you have taken HCQ for only 30 days or less and not ill and had a new heart arrhythmia let CNN know. It would be worth $1,000,000 to you.
    It may be true that HCQ exacerbates existing heart arrhythmias. A contraindication for a given patient who has arrhythmia. Good info for prescribing doctors.
    If those observational, retrospective studies are valid so is the use of HCQ based on observations by practicing physicians. They are anecdotal, not controlled, experiments. Experiments not done as experiments. As such the other factors not mentioned in the records observed could skew results.
    Most critically, no mention is made as to the time of the start of treatment, nor zinc. Nor a distinction between HCQ and chloroqine. Nor dosage. Nor comorbidities. We know that using HCQ without Zinc is sometimes ineffective. We know that HCQ started late is futile. It is an anti-viral, not a treatment for the disease COVID19.
    You're listening to the right wing propaganda. The doctors are considering everything you say they aren't. Chloroquine kills Covid-19 patients.

    Somehow I don't believe that the prophylactic dose of 200 mg once a week of a safety-tested drug would be a problem even in someone with arrhythmia.
    Do you know someone who has taken HCQ for Lupus or something else? Any side effects?
    You don't understand how drugs are evaluated. Drugs are tested in comparison to the best alternative. Malaria is nasty, when chloroquine was all they had it's what they used. That doesn't mean it has a good safety profile, only that it is safer than the malaria.

    https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychl...e-effects.html

  4. Top | #824
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Well here are two people I usually respect jawing at each other about drugs a stupid man is taking as a publicity stunt. You are both embarrassing yourselves with no dog in the fight. Better if you just say something like "poor, poor stupid man."

    Stupid men doing stupid things desreve to be ignored.

  5. Top | #825
    Veteran Member George S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    You don't understand how drugs are evaluated.
    I worked for a major pharmaceutical manufacturer for the majority of my working life. I suspect I understand more than most how drugs are actually evaluated for FDA approval. I have worked with epidemiologists on programs to report and graph such trials.
    I have seen multi-million-dollar research go to waste because of failing double-blind tests. I know the criteria and have been instrumental in refining data for the "package insert."
    I, personally, not only understand it, but "been there, done that."
    In my experience interviewing epidemiologists I have found that that they must report even the rarest of side-effects. Losartan is prescribed daily and ...
    Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking losartan:

    Less common

    Blurred vision
    burning, crawling, itching, numbness, prickling, "pins and needles", or tingling feelings
    confusion
    difficult breathing
    dizziness
    dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
    fainting
    fast or irregular heartbeat
    nausea or vomiting
    nervousness
    numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
    stomach pain
    sweating
    unusual tiredness or weakness
    weakness or heaviness of the legs


    Incidence not known

    Black, tarry stools
    bleeding gums
    blood in the urine or stools
    coma
    convulsions
    cough
    decreased urine output
    difficulty swallowing
    headache
    hives, itching, skin rash
    increased thirst
    large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, or sex organs
    muscle pain or cramps
    pinpoint red spots on the skin
    puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
    tightness in the chest
    unusual bleeding or bruising
    Side effects not requiring immediate medical attention
    Some side effects of losartan may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects.

    Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

    Less common

    Body aches or pain
    chills
    continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
    decreased interest in sexual intercourse
    difficulty having a bowel movement (stool)
    ear congestion
    feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
    feeling sad or empty
    headache, severe and throbbing
    hearing loss
    inability to have or keep an erection
    increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight
    irritability
    lack of appetite
    loss in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
    loss of interest or pleasure
    loss of voice
    redness or other discoloration of the skin
    sensation of spinning
    severe sunburn
    sneezing
    sore throat
    stuffy or runny nose
    trouble concentrating
    trouble sleeping


    Incidence not known

    Change or loss of taste
    dark urine
    general tiredness and weakness
    light-colored stools
    yellow eyes and skin

  6. Top | #826
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    But, regardless of whether or not one tolerates that drug, the study in the Lancet, which was quite impressive, came to the concussion that the drug was useless against the virus, therefore the risks, even if they are not that common, out weigh the benefit. I've read that Pepcid, Vitamin D, and Zinc have been thought to fight or prevent the virus, but I think we are all just desperate and want to believe there is something harmless out there that will magically help prevent or cure this virus.

    And, I've read that some people who really need the HCQ for other chronic problems like Lupus, are having problems getting it because of the hoarding and misuse of the drug by people like the idiot in the WH. Let's not deprive those who need this drug for diseases that's it been proven to be effective in treating, have access to the drug.

  7. Top | #827
    Contributor repoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Well here are two people I usually respect jawing at each other about drugs a stupid man is taking as a publicity stunt. You are both embarrassing yourselves with no dog in the fight. Better if you just say something like "poor, poor stupid man."

    Stupid men doing stupid things desreve to be ignored.
    Or just bullshitting that he is taking, which is more likely. His personal doctor would likely be in on that lie.

    But if his doctor lets slip that Trump is fronting as usual that would be pretty cool

  8. Top | #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by George S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    You don't understand how drugs are evaluated.
    I worked for a major pharmaceutical manufacturer for the majority of my working life. I suspect I understand more than most how drugs are actually evaluated for FDA approval. I have worked with epidemiologists on programs to report and graph such trials.
    I have seen multi-million-dollar research go to waste because of failing double-blind tests. I know the criteria and have been instrumental in refining data for the "package insert."
    I, personally, not only understand it, but "been there, done that."
    In my experience interviewing epidemiologists I have found that that they must report even the rarest of side-effects. Losartan is prescribed daily and ...
    You still miss the point. Drugs are evaluated against the alternative, "safety" is situational. Just because a drug is approved doesn't mean it's "safe".

  9. Top | #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    But, regardless of whether or not one tolerates that drug, the study in the Lancet, which was quite impressive, came to the concussion that the drug was useless against the virus, therefore the risks, even if they are not that common, out weigh the benefit. I've read that Pepcid, Vitamin D, and Zinc have been thought to fight or prevent the virus, but I think we are all just desperate and want to believe there is something harmless out there that will magically help prevent or cure this virus.
    I think there's something to the vitamin D bit--I have seen considerable speculation that a lot of people are actually deficient, just not to the point of obvious symptoms. I could easily believe a low-level deficiency could make you fare worse against a disease. There's also been an issue with selenium this way--a long study of using it against IIRC prostate cancer eventually concluded that it didn't help, but rather a deficiency harms.

  10. Top | #830
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repoman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Well here are two people I usually respect jawing at each other about drugs a stupid man is taking as a publicity stunt. You are both embarrassing yourselves with no dog in the fight. Better if you just say something like "poor, poor stupid man."

    Stupid men doing stupid things deserve to be ignored.
    Or just bullshitting that he is taking, which is more likely. His personal doctor would likely be in on that lie.

    But if his doctor lets slip that Trump is fronting as usual that would be pretty cool
    Losing weight repoman?

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