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Thread: Transphobia in Miami

  1. Top | #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post

    It isn't a matter of etiquette when they try to make it mandatory.
    Well, yeah, for you it is.
    Pretty funny, really.
    THEY are adamant about how you address them, YOU are adamant about how they ask you. Both of you standing on your dignity like that.
    You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?

  2. Top | #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post

    It isn't a matter of etiquette when they try to make it mandatory.
    Well, yeah, for you it is.
    Pretty funny, really.
    THEY are adamant about how you address them, YOU are adamant about how they ask you. Both of you standing on your dignity like that.
    You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?
    As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
    Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
    Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

    But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.

  3. Top | #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post

    You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?
    As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
    Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
    Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

    But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.
    It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

  4. Top | #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.
    What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?

  5. Top | #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by krypton iodine sulfur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.
    What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?
    I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.

  6. Top | #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by krypton iodine sulfur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.
    What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?
    I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.
    I suppose my curiosity is if he is just parroting Peterson or the like, or if there was some critical thought and analysis of an actual policy in there somewhere. Admittedly, I'm mostly familiar with legislation within Canadian jurisdictions where we don't bother with the guns--we just sentence them to Canadian exile (which is a lot like ordinary life, except the entire population is barred from saying 'sorry' to you, as is our way).

  7. Top | #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by krypton iodine sulfur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    It was admitted that my other examples were valid. Freedom of speech means not only you cannot be censored it means you cannot be compelled. Of course you bring up the UCMJ which is a very special example, but civilians aren't covered by it. This isn't etiquette, this is compelled speech. Why you picked this hill to die on seems childish, to me.
    What is 'compelled speech'? Different jurisdictions have different statutes. Different organizations have different policies. To which are you referring?
    I think he's referring to the fact that he is being compelled, at gunpoint, by the government, to call people with penises 'she/her".. oh, wait... HE ISN'T. So it isn't compelled speech and he's just whining that anyone has the gall to ask and even expect him to actually have some etiquette.
    Actually, if you refuse to call a person by their pronoun, for example a man wants to be called she, and you refer to him as "he" all the time every day in every instance, you can be charged with a hate crime. We are not talking about someone who calls the man a "he" and then gets corrected and they apologize and start calling the man a she.

    We are talking about if you don't believe the man is a she, and you refuse to call him a she, and you call him a "he" non-stop in your daily lives, you can be charged with a hate crime.

    As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.

  8. Top | #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post

    You really see no difference between mandates and etiquette?
    As i pointed out above, i have been in situations where 'proper' terms of address were literally mandated. Uniform Code of Military Justice, for example.
    Functionally, there is no great difference in using a pronoun based on their request, social custom, or mandatory rule.
    Why you pick this hill to die on seems childish, to me.

    But, at least it's more adult than Halfie, who would deny free expression to all transexuals just so he doesn't have to learn how to behave among grownups.
    Keith, who said I deny free expression to them? Did you miss this post:

    As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with people dressing or acting however they want. But, you are not a different gender because of it! Can't you see there is a difference between gender and gender norms/expectations/roles? It is my belief that the trans community equates the "gender norms" to "gender," which is simply wrong. It's not a bad thing that this is wrong. I am simply pointing out that they are not abiding by the traditional stereotypical gender norms. It does not mean they are a different gender.

  9. Top | #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.
    Secularism is a principle not a religion.

  10. Top | #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    As I've said many times, the only religion allowed in public places and workplaces and schools is the religion of secularism.
    Secularism is a principle not a religion.
    It basically is a religion. The thoughts of secularism are allowed in schools. For example, homosexuality is allowed to be taught in schools as "normal." The teaching of it as not normal is not allowed because that is considered a "religious position." However, teaching that it's normal is also a religious position.

    Picture 2 different parents:

    Child: We learned about how homosexuality is normal today!
    Christian parent: That's not right. I don't want the school filling your head with that nonsense.

    Child: We learned about how homosexuality is wrong today!
    Atheist parent: That's not right. I don't want the school filling your head with that nonsense.

    In both cases, the school would be teaching something the parents disagree with.

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