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Thread: Bernie Sanders' opposition dossier

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    Contributor PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders' opposition dossier

    Given that the centrist Democrats want Sanders to fail more than the Republicans do (and if you don't see this by now, there is a high probability you are one of those Democrats), it's likely to be the case that they have left no stone unturned with regards to "oppo" on him. So, by looking at what has been released in the run-up to Iowa, we can get a sense of what the most damaging, controversial skeletons are in Bernie's closet.

    The Iowa caucus is tonight, and Bernie has been rising in the polls considerably since (a) Biden spent the last 3 weeks making everybody check his record on social security and (b) Warren failed to convince voters that Bernie thinks a woman can't be POTUS. At this critical moment, with so much at stake from them, the Democratic party establishment and its media cheerleaders are unleashing the hounds to attack Bernie on... checking...

    Oh! It's Bernie bros again.

    Wait, really? Like from 2016? Oh wait, there's more...

    Sanders once likened poor whites to blacks under Apartheid

    At a 1986 public forum, Sanders said poor Vermonters “are the equivalent of blacks in South Africa. They don’t vote, they aren’t involved, they don’t care about the issues,” according to the Bennington Banner in Vermont. Sanders amended his statement after one observer on stage commented about his “pretty fiery oratory.”

    “Obviously the analogy is not true,” Sanders then responded, “because in South Africa the blacks are not invisible — they are beginning to stand up.”

    At the time of his remarks, Vermont’s population was about 99 percent white and about 0.2 percent black.
    Democrats were forced to posthumously cancel Frederick Douglas shortly after criticizing this speech



    Let's see what else is in the bag... and remember, this is the result of at least 4 years of research by a major political apparatus in the most powerful country on Earth. Surely they must have uncovered something truly frightening about Sanders to sink his candidacy. Ah. So there's this:

    Bernie Sanders in 1972: U.S. Actions in Vietnam ‘Almost as Bad as What Hitler Did’

    Speaking to a class of ninth graders during his 1972 gubernatorial run in Vermont, Sanders accused the United States of committing atrocities the students would not believe and defended the communist North Vietnamese fighters, according to reporting in the Rutland Herald, a Vermont newspaper. Sanders compared U.S. actions in Vietnam to those of Adolf Hitler, who murdered some six million Jews.

    The American military undertook actions that were "almost as bad as what Hitler did," the paper quoted Sanders as saying to the class of around 30 students at Rutland Junior High School.
    The DNC has claimed yet another casualty by framing this speech as problematic, and with heavy heart they were forced to also cancel Martin Luther King, Jr.



    So what's going on here? In the runup to perhaps the most important primary of the race, where the momentum is either gained or lost and carries over into the next few early states before Super Tuesday, is this the best they've got? Two unearthed speeches where Bernie demonstrates he is absolutely on point by making correct comparisons that no other politician was making (or would even make today)? It's starting to look like they don't have much against the guy, and you really love to see it.

    For more context, here is Peter Daou, a Clinton 2016 staffer who has become vociferously progressive since then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Daou
    In 2016 I was shown the entire oppo book on #Bernie.

    From what I've seen, there are no surprises that could derail him in a general election.
    Furthermore, the person responsible for doing the actual research on him in 2016 has been a part of Bernie's campaign since last May

    Bernie Sanders Is Hiring a Former Hillary Clinton Staffer As Research Chief

    Tyson Brody, Clinton’s deputy research director during the last election cycle, will direct Sanders’s research operation, Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir confirmed to Intelligencer on Wednesday. Brody, who worked on Clinton’s self-research as well as the Sanders oppo files last cycle, is the first Democrat to go from Clinton’s camp to Sanders’s 2020 campaign after their bitter primary fight.
    My point? Bernie has been vetted. The idea that the GOP has this giant book of communist propaganda rallies or Black Panther meetings with Bernie in attendance is not only ridiculous (since at this point such oppo would have been deployed already), but it's probably bound to make his supporters like him even more anyway. We wish Bernie was as cool and as leftist as his critics keep saying he is.

    In the general election, if Bernie is the nominee and doesn't get ratfucked at the convention, I predict the opposition research on him will just be more of what everybody has already seen a million times. He won't have to explain why his mind has changed or what his new position is, because he has nothing to apologize for. Comparatively speaking, Biden and Warren have a treasure trove of flip-flops, gaffes, poor policy decisions, outright lies, and compilation videos of making young girls uncomfortable (well, Biden has that anyway). All the GOP will say about Sanders is what he vociferously champions already, which is what the GOP has been saying about every Democratic candidate since time immemorial: he wants to expand the size of the federal government, spend money on helping poor people, raise taxes to fund generous welfare programs, make us less safe by reducing our military, destroy the economy by limiting the power of the free market, and will raise the deficit so high it bankrupts the nation! The only difference with Sanders is the fairly weak addendum of: and to prove it, he calls himself a socialist! Everything else, every last line of attack, is identical to what they used against Obama.

    On the other side of the scale is what they CAN'T use against Sanders, that they love to use against other Democrats: they are crooked, corrupt, out of touch with ordinary people, only interested in identity politics, condescending toward people outside of their bubble, weak, capitulating, and they want to take away all your guns (any day now...), most of which is basically accurate when lobbed at more than half of Democratic presidential candidates in recent memory. But it doesn't stick when they try it on Bernie, because everybody knows he doesn't fit that mould.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Other than the usual suspects, I would like to hear some takes by Republican or right-wing members of this forum. Do you think there is a giant iceberg of bad optics lurking in the GOP's file on Bernie that is much worse than what we've seen so far? Do you agree that the opposition that has been released thus far has not succeeded in making Bernie less popular among Democrats or independents? If so, what do you make of his chances in the general election against Trump, whose entire platform is basically one sustained attack on whoever his opponent may be?

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    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    ...if Bernie is the nominee and doesn't get ratfucked at the convention
    That's not a possible scenario. If he's the nominee, he DIDN'T get ratfucked at the convention.
    Your overall point stands, but ignores Republicans' ability to manufacture specious dirt. Of course they'll do that to whoever gets the nomination. They probably already have everything from posters and billboards to TV commercials lined up with placeholders: "As we know from his/her record, ______ is a mean old poopyhead who eats babies raw".

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    Contributor PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    ...if Bernie is the nominee and doesn't get ratfucked at the convention
    That's not a possible scenario. If he's the nominee, he DIDN'T get ratfucked at the convention.
    Your overall point stands, but ignores Republicans' ability to manufacture specious dirt. Of course they'll do that to whoever gets the nomination. They probably already have everything from posters and billboards to TV commercials lined up with placeholders: "As we know from his/her record, ______ is a mean old poopyhead who eats babies raw".
    Perhaps, but that's no different from any other candidate, and in this case it would be launched at one with an uncommonly consistent record and a reputation as honest and trustworthy, instead of someone who triangulates and morphs like a chameleon to follow public opinion. My larger point was that Sanders has unique advantages compared to the others when it comes to the mud-slinging that will happen in the general, rather than being uniquely disadvantaged.

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    Maybe the fqct that nasty dirt is not being dished at Bernie is because the democratic party does NOT have it in for him.

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    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Maybe the fqct that nasty dirt is not being dished at Bernie is because the democratic party does NOT have it in for him.
    From my personal vantage point it looks like the DNC is going through all kinds of contortions in their heartfelt but inept attempts to avoid the appearance of candidate bias - it's a no-win effort. The harder they try the worse it looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramidhead
    Sanders has unique advantages compared to the others when it comes to the mud-slinging that will happen in the general,
    I believe that's true. If the only issue was a candidate's candor, Bernie would be a shoo-in. But there are single issue voters out there with different issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramidhead
    Sanders has unique advantages compared to the others when it comes to the mud-slinging that will happen in the general,
    I believe that's true. If the only issue was a candidate's candor, Bernie would be a shoo-in. But there are single issue voters out there with different issues.
    Sure, but those people already are going to vote for the Republican/Democratic candidate anyway, regardless of who is running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Given that the centrist Democrats want Sanders to fail more than the Republicans do (and if you don't see this by now, there is a high probability you are one of those Democrats), it's likely to be the case that they have left no stone unturned with regards to "oppo" on him. So, by looking at what has been released in the run-up to Iowa, we can get a sense of what the most damaging, controversial skeletons are in Bernie's closet.

    The Iowa caucus is tonight, and Bernie has been rising in the polls considerably since (a) Biden spent the last 3 weeks making everybody check his record on social security and (b) Warren failed to convince voters that Bernie thinks a woman can't be POTUS. At this critical moment, with so much at stake from them, the Democratic party establishment and its media cheerleaders are unleashing the hounds to attack Bernie on... checking...

    Oh! It's Bernie bros again.

    Wait, really? Like from 2016? Oh wait, there's more...

    Sanders once likened poor whites to blacks under Apartheid



    Democrats were forced to posthumously cancel Frederick Douglas shortly after criticizing this speech



    Let's see what else is in the bag... and remember, this is the result of at least 4 years of research by a major political apparatus in the most powerful country on Earth. Surely they must have uncovered something truly frightening about Sanders to sink his candidacy. Ah. So there's this:

    Bernie Sanders in 1972: U.S. Actions in Vietnam ‘Almost as Bad as What Hitler Did’



    The DNC has claimed yet another casualty by framing this speech as problematic, and with heavy heart they were forced to also cancel Martin Luther King, Jr.



    So what's going on here? In the runup to perhaps the most important primary of the race, where the momentum is either gained or lost and carries over into the next few early states before Super Tuesday, is this the best they've got? Two unearthed speeches where Bernie demonstrates he is absolutely on point by making correct comparisons that no other politician was making (or would even make today)? It's starting to look like they don't have much against the guy, and you really love to see it.

    For more context, here is Peter Daou, a Clinton 2016 staffer who has become vociferously progressive since then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Daou
    In 2016 I was shown the entire oppo book on #Bernie.

    From what I've seen, there are no surprises that could derail him in a general election.
    Furthermore, the person responsible for doing the actual research on him in 2016 has been a part of Bernie's campaign since last May

    Bernie Sanders Is Hiring a Former Hillary Clinton Staffer As Research Chief

    Tyson Brody, Clinton’s deputy research director during the last election cycle, will direct Sanders’s research operation, Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir confirmed to Intelligencer on Wednesday. Brody, who worked on Clinton’s self-research as well as the Sanders oppo files last cycle, is the first Democrat to go from Clinton’s camp to Sanders’s 2020 campaign after their bitter primary fight.
    My point? Bernie has been vetted. The idea that the GOP has this giant book of communist propaganda rallies or Black Panther meetings with Bernie in attendance is not only ridiculous (since at this point such oppo would have been deployed already), but it's probably bound to make his supporters like him even more anyway. We wish Bernie was as cool and as leftist as his critics keep saying he is.

    In the general election, if Bernie is the nominee and doesn't get ratfucked at the convention, I predict the opposition research on him will just be more of what everybody has already seen a million times. He won't have to explain why his mind has changed or what his new position is, because he has nothing to apologize for. Comparatively speaking, Biden and Warren have a treasure trove of flip-flops, gaffes, poor policy decisions, outright lies, and compilation videos of making young girls uncomfortable (well, Biden has that anyway). All the GOP will say about Sanders is what he vociferously champions already, which is what the GOP has been saying about every Democratic candidate since time immemorial: he wants to expand the size of the federal government, spend money on helping poor people, raise taxes to fund generous welfare programs, make us less safe by reducing our military, destroy the economy by limiting the power of the free market, and will raise the deficit so high it bankrupts the nation! The only difference with Sanders is the fairly weak addendum of: and to prove it, he calls himself a socialist! Everything else, every last line of attack, is identical to what they used against Obama.

    On the other side of the scale is what they CAN'T use against Sanders, that they love to use against other Democrats: they are crooked, corrupt, out of touch with ordinary people, only interested in identity politics, condescending toward people outside of their bubble, weak, capitulating, and they want to take away all your guns (any day now...), most of which is basically accurate when lobbed at more than half of Democratic presidential candidates in recent memory. But it doesn't stick when they try it on Bernie, because everybody knows he doesn't fit that mould.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Other than the usual suspects, I would like to hear some takes by Republican or right-wing members of this forum. Do you think there is a giant iceberg of bad optics lurking in the GOP's file on Bernie that is much worse than what we've seen so far? Do you agree that the opposition that has been released thus far has not succeeded in making Bernie less popular among Democrats or independents? If so, what do you make of his chances in the general election against Trump, whose entire platform is basically one sustained attack on whoever his opponent may be?
    Hasn't there been a "Sanders sided with the Ayatollah against the hostages" tentacle already put out by a right wing source. Expect more of that--and of course outright lies from Trump, Putin and Co. about Sanders if he's the Democratic nominee.

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