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Thread: Electric-Car Charging Network Proposed

  1. Top | #11
    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    What's wrong with doing both? That would be a good rebuttal to anti-environmentalists who claim that environmental-protection efforts only put people out of work.
    It's too late for a rebuttal. The "anti-environmentalists" already won the public debate by flooding the media with misinformation.

    Convincing people to build this network is a political problem, not an academic one. You need to sell it to the majority of Americans who aren't alarmed about climate change and may not tolerate government spending for the sake of emissions reductions. So sell them jobs instead of climate action.

    What's wrong with doing both? Do both, but your audience for each message is different. If you're speaking to alarmed middle class professionals, sell them climate action; if you're speaking to aspiring blue-collar workers uncertain about their economic future, sell them security and prosperity.

  2. Top | #12
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    Rural electrification and the Tennessee Valley Authority along with the national highway system under Eisenhower. Different times and afferent politics. Both served an obvious purpose of expanding the economy. Both had tremendous impact.

    Selling an electric car grid would mean showing how it benefits the economy. EVs are already reducing employment in assembly plants. There is a vast secondary and tertiary market that serves gasoline powered cars.

    As is being reported, all people really car about is jobs and wages. Remember 'It is the economy stupid'?

    It is not just the grid. Supply has to rapidly increase. The only practical way is nuclear power. 24/7 reliable generation.

  3. Top | #13
    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Selling an electric car grid would mean showing how it benefits the economy. EVs are already reducing employment in assembly plants. There is a vast secondary and tertiary market that serves gasoline powered cars.
    Aldous Huxley recognised that inefficient, labour intensive products and services are great for keeping people employed.

    Electric vehicles are better technology because they consume fewer resources, but they are also worse technology because their use doesn't generate as much economic activity as petroleum-fuelled cars.

    People opposed to this scheme can say "fewer jobs for mechanics", "fewer jobs in parts manufacturing". So it may also be necessary to promise the people that electric vehicles will be super cheap to own, framing the reduced secondary market as a benefit for car owners.

  4. Top | #14
    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    Sorry, forgot to make my point specific to the thread topic:

    "We should build an EV charging network because it's good for the environment" is not going to convince many people.

    "We should build an EV charging network because it will create new skilled jobs for workers in every state" actually sells a clear and direct benefit.
    How skilled would such jobs be? The aim would be to have the charging stations easy, quick to build and relatively cheap.
    That means that they would be modular i.e section A plugs into section B etc.
    Even the final electrical attachments could be plug based.
    Not much up-skilling skill involved really.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  5. Top | #15
    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    How skilled would such jobs be? The aim would be to have the charging stations easy, quick to build and relatively cheap.
    That means that they would be modular i.e section A plugs into section B etc.
    Even the final electrical attachments could be plug based.
    Not much up-skilling skill involved really.
    Installing the charging stations themselves is probably comparable to installing solar panels. There's also a infrastructure that needs to be built to supply electricity to the stations, such as underground wiring. That will require crews with people who are qualified to do excavation, pipe-laying, electrical fitting, and standing around while looking at a hole.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Selling an electric car grid would mean showing how it benefits the economy. EVs are already reducing employment in assembly plants. There is a vast secondary and tertiary market that serves gasoline powered cars.
    Aldous Huxley recognised that inefficient, labour intensive products and services are great for keeping people employed.

    Electric vehicles are better technology because they consume fewer resources, but they are also worse technology because their use doesn't generate as much economic activity as petroleum-fuelled cars.

    People opposed to this scheme can say "fewer jobs for mechanics", "fewer jobs in parts manufacturing". So it may also be necessary to promise the people that electric vehicles will be super cheap to own, framing the reduced secondary market as a benefit for car owners.
    I wasn't arguing against EV, I was pointing out the hurdle presented by the auto industry and after markets.

    The term for those opposed to technology that cheapens life is Luddite. 19th century I believe.

    Keynes wrote the best stimulus the govt can do to create demand is to pay some people to dig holes and others to fill them in.

    It puts cash in economy for people to spend.

  7. Top | #17
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    Battery chargers are cheap, very simple electronics. I don't know if they are built into the EV so all's you need is AC. I assume they are. If it does not already exist a national probably international standard is needed for the connectors and cables.

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Bank
    There are EV unintended consequences. Here in Washington tax revenue from gasoline is declining. Increased fuel efficiency plus electric vehicles.
    This is caused by a few things, but mainly just 1 and 2.

    1) Flat tax amount not connected to inflation
    2) Increased efficiency
    3) electric vehicles on the road, but this is a tiny amount of it

    Increase the tax and connect it to inflation and problem solved. EV's are honestly still an emerging tech. Do we want to tax those to recover lost revenue yet?

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Bank
    There are EV unintended consequences. Here in Washington tax revenue from gasoline is declining. Increased fuel efficiency plus electric vehicles.
    This is caused by a few things, but mainly just 1 and 2.

    1) Flat tax amount not connected to inflation
    2) Increased efficiency
    3) electric vehicles on the road, but this is a tiny amount of it

    Increase the tax and connect it to inflation and problem solved. EV's are honestly still an emerging tech. Do we want to tax those to recover lost revenue yet?
    Globally EVs are reported to be growing faster than expected. From an NPR segment demands for EV fleet cars and trucks exceed demand. Higher up front cost but cheaper in the long run.

    The report from the Washington government is efficiency plus EV. Which is why a mileage tax is being tossed around. The governor is proposing banning fossil fuel vehicles by 2030.

    Networks have been developing in the NW for quite a while.

    Also it is not just EVs, hybrids reduce gas consumption.

    https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/business/in...infrastructure

    Through a competitive application process, WSDOT awarded $1 million in grants for the 2017-2019 Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Partnerships Program (EVIPP) of about $1.5 million, for a total investment of about $2.5 million.

    The funds are helping to install a total of 15 new charging locations near highway exits about 40 miles apart along I-5, I-90, and I-82/US-395/I-182. Grant funding is used for siting, equipment purchases, electrical upgrades, installation, operations and maintenance. All new locations include equipment serving all plug in cars with Level 2 equipment and duel fast chargers with both standards.


    https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Programs...-Vehicles.aspx

    Currently, the biggest limitation for drivers considering EVs is the absence of a reliable network of charging facilities to increase the range of these vehicles and alleviate fears of “running out of juice.” Even so, by 2020, plug-in cars could account for as much as 20 percent of new vehicles sold in Oregon.



    Eight states spanning east to west have created a collaborative “Multi-State ZEV Action Plan” that will guide efforts to put 3.3 million zero emission vehicles on the roads by 2025. Oregon, California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont created the first promised milestone for the bi-coastal collaboration aimed at paving the way for the cleanest cars in the nation – ZEVs. The plan focuses on infrastructure, policies, standards and other components critical for the success of a growing market.


    Electric vehicle charging stations are locations where vehicles can plug in to an electrical source to re-charge batteries. EV charging stations are necessary to support what is expected to be a growing fleet of EVs throughout Oregon. In fact, every vehicle manufacturer has announced plans to release plug-in vehicles, and many of them are arriving in Oregon daily. But their popularity will only increase to the degree that there are charging stations available for vehicle owners to re-charge their cars. And the charging stations have to be conveniently located to ensure EV owners they don't get stranded in between charges.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Battery chargers are cheap, very simple electronics. I don't know if they are built into the EV so all's you need is AC. I assume they are. If it does not already exist a national probably international standard is needed for the connectors and cables.
    Only if you don't care about the lifespan of the batteries.

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