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Thread: The DNC is the problem. Or is it?

  1. Top | #51
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    I am interested in a real discussion on WHY the anti-DNC progressives do not have a portfolio of successfully elected officials, given their claims that they have a winning coalition. Serious answers, please, I really want to know.
    I think you may be getting your answer at the convention if Bernie keeps on the roll he's now on. Perhaps you can join him in pushing actual and fully progressive liberal policies instead of standing against.
    Jolly,

    I did not sit on the sidelines whining.
    I ran for office. I won. I ran again and won again.
    I spent 8 years enacting progressive goals in a red red red town.

    I’m not some blowhard person on the sidelines in a foreign country complaining about a rigged system in America.

    And I think the whining from Bernie supporters just perplexes me when most town and county positions HAVE NO PRIMARY because there is no one else running. And the zillions of hate-DNC-progressives (I am a glad for DNC progressive) anyway zillions of the anti-DNC are telling us all how incredibly popular they are, but they aren’t bothering to run for local office to build the progressive Sanders Party.

    WHY NOT?
    Why are Dems running for local offices but Greens aren’t? If they are SO DAMN POPULAR it should be ridiculously easy to flush the GOP off the school board and the town board.

    But they don’t, or can’t.

    Are they maybe not as popular as they think?
    Are they bad at math?

  2. Top | #52
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Rhea is being critical of someone using the only method capable of righting the ship: you can't correct the problem of parties before you correct FPTP, and you can't correct the corruption of parties before you correct the money problem, and you can't correct the money problem without impacting the party. Thus the only solution is to coopt an existing binary party first and then leverage that towards the other two issues.
    Why is it not a method to right the ship to take all these uge numbers of popular progressives, form a party and start getting eected to towns and school boards? Why no county legislators? Why no town clerks?


    Why do you people think that parachuting into the CEO position is the only way to right the ship?

    Where is the evidence that this is the only way to right the ship? Where is the evidence that you’ve even tried anything else? You want to tear down the only known bulwark against the GOP, and you’ve never even [i]tried[i] to work from the grassroots up, like the GOP did, like the DNC did.

    You have no evidence that this is the only way and you’re sneering at the people who did actual work in the trenches.



    She can throw a tantrum all she wants, but this is THE way. There is no other, and it is a function of how democracy in the US was founded. So it's what is going to happen and she best accept that or join the conservatives.
    Bullshit. It is not the only way, and I am not throwing a tantrum. I’m calmly asking for a shred of evidence that an anti-DNC movement has enough people to call themselves a movement.

    I was mad at what GW Bush was doing. I ran for office, I served in it for 8 years, I made a difference. Did you?

  3. Top | #53
    Contributor PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    I'm willing to bet that Mayor Bloomberg will be a better advocate for taking down the influence of money in politics than will Mayor Butigieg. No chance any serving senator present or past will do so including most notably Sen. Sanders. He's way to confrontational and narrow belief driven. Billionaire Steyer might succeed hes' saying the right things about the right problems.

    Sometimes one has to have been successful in some arena to have the strength to bring corruption in that arena down effectively.

    DNC can be bought. So the billionaires will buy it as a first step to eliminating financial corruption in government. Saviors come in strange clothes sometimes.
    I want to find a well that has no bottom and jump into it while screaming "we are doomed" at the top of my lungs until I asphyxiate in mid-fall

  4. Top | #54
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    It isn't an anti-DNC movement. That's what you are missing, Rhea. It's not about destroying the Democratic Party or the DNC. It is about changing them from within and making them better, more transparent, and getting rid of the corruption.

    And why should people form or join third, potentially vote splitting parties, in a system that is decidedly stacked against that approach? Why not make the change within one of the existing two big parties? It simply makes more sense that way.

    Conservative Democrats are still welcome to challenge the progressive Democrats in the primaries. You aren't being kicked out.

  5. Top | #55
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    You’re never going to answer the question about why the ones who say the DNC is the problem can’t manage tk get a candidate elected in an election that has no dnc influence, are you?

    Is the question to hard to answer with your lack of understanding of the American system?

    Why are the school, town and county positions NOT filled with progressives? Why? They are as numerous as the grains of sand in the Mohave.

  6. Top | #56
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    There are 129 Green Party members elected to local positions of varying power (all but one below to well-below Mayor).

    However, there are over 500,000 local positions in the US on about 87,000 elected bodies (same link).

    Yes, running as a third party in the US is harder than the Astros not trying to cheat in Baseball. Which is definitely a reason to support modifying how voting in done in the US. This would provide an option to expand the electorate's influence. Of course, the DNC and RNC don't want that.

    But until that happens, the whole... trust us the votes are there, they just haven't voted before doesn't line up with the history of voting or even recent elections. Generally the prog primary candidate either doesn't win the primary or loses the general election.

  7. Top | #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    You’re never going to answer the question about why the ones who say the DNC is the problem can’t manage tk get a candidate elected in an election that has no dnc influence, are you?
    Because the US is a two party system. If a progressive runs as an independent or third party all that would do is split the Dem vote, and guarantee a Rep victory in the majority of races. Also the way the system is set up now running for congress is expensive. Without an organization like the dnc to back you up it is very difficult to set up and fund an organization that can compete with the two parties.


    Why are the school, town and county positions NOT filled with progressives? Why? They are as numerous as the grains of sand in the Mohave.
    How do you know they arn't? In polling on individual policy positions the liberal/progressive policies tend to poll very well. But since most people have to run as a member of a party, and parties tend to support candidates that toe the party line (and reasoning to dismiss the more progressive positions). There is also the possibility of since the major parties do not promote some of the more liberal/progressive policies, a lot of people might not be familiar with them as an option, and so haven't sought to push them.

    Then there is the sad fact that a lot of people don't put much thought into politics at all. I've got a relative that posts plenty of fluffy feel good memes about loving one another, not caring about politics, be respectful of everyone, and then a meme about praying for Rush, the antithesis of all her fluffy posts. It won't be until an election is near that she says she would look into the candidates, but honestly all that matters to her is if they are anti-abortion. I'm sure there are plenty of democrats that are just as low information voters.

  8. Top | #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    You’re never going to answer the question about why the ones who say the DNC is the problem can’t manage tk get a candidate elected in an election that has no dnc influence, are you?
    Because the US is a two party system. If a progressive runs as an independent or third party all that would do is split the Dem vote, and guarantee a Rep victory in the majority of races. Also the way the system is set up now running for congress is expensive. Without an organization like the dnc to back you up it is very difficult to set up and fund an organization that can compete with the two parties.


    Why are the school, town and county positions NOT filled with progressives? Why? They are as numerous as the grains of sand in the Mohave.
    How do you know they arn't? In polling on individual policy positions the liberal/progressive policies tend to poll very well. But since most people have to run as a member of a party, and parties tend to support candidates that toe the party line (and reasoning to dismiss the more progressive positions). There is also the possibility of since the major parties do not promote some of the more liberal/progressive policies, a lot of people might not be familiar with them as an option, and so haven't sought to push them.

    Then there is the sad fact that a lot of people don't put much thought into politics at all. I've got a relative that posts plenty of fluffy feel good memes about loving one another, not caring about politics, be respectful of everyone, and then a meme about praying for Rush, the antithesis of all her fluffy posts. It won't be until an election is near that she says she would look into the candidates, but honestly all that matters to her is if they are anti-abortion. I'm sure there are plenty of democrats that are just as low information voters.
    I'm not sure there as many stupid/regressive democrats as there are republicans. In fact I can't think of a dem administration in my lifetime that wasn't better than the best republican administration, with one exception.
    (Eisenhower's administration being the exception, and he'd be called a radical leftist by the crime syndicate currently in power.)

  9. Top | #59
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    I want to find a well that has no bottom ...
    That's where our problems begin; people demanding impossible things!

  10. Top | #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    You’re never going to answer the question about why the ones who say the DNC is the problem can’t manage tk get a candidate elected in an election that has no dnc influence, are you?
    No. I'm not. I'm not them and I'm no more psychic than you are. I do understand why they would want to run as Democrats rather than as Greens or as any other party though. Apparently you'd rather ignore that so ok whatever.

    Is the question to hard to answer with your lack of understanding of the American system?
    This has nothing to do with my or your lack of understanding of anything.

    Why are the school, town and county positions NOT filled with progressives? Why?
    How you do you know they are not? As noted by others above, they very well may be. Just because somebody runs as a Democrat doesn't mean they are not progressive. The progressive Democrats are growing in number quickly and hopefully they will soon take majority control of the party. But again, the conservative Democrats are still welcome. Its a big tent, right? And if you don't feel welcome, you can always go join the Republicans along with the other conservatives.

    And all of that is a derail from your initial complaint about people saying the DNC is a problem. It IS a problem and it needs to be fixed and made more transparent and Democratic and less corrupt, and this change must be made by the Democrats themselves, including the progressive ones.

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