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Thread: The DNC is the problem. Or is it?

  1. Top | #11
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by jab View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    You appear to be claiming that corporations only, not individual voters, oppose medicare for all.
    What makes you assume that?
    1. Does the DNC oppose Medicare for all? Not being an American, I'm not sure. Or am I not sure because the DNC is equivocal?
    They do not oppose it.

    2. You seem to be suggesting that perhaps you don't support Medicare for all. Don't you? Or are you being equivocal?
    I do support it. As soon as I can get it. Not willing to throw away people’s lives for being in a hurry, tho. 4 more years of GOP is killing lots of people. I’d be happy with a 4-year “public option” to avoid that risk and get my UHC in 3 steps instead of doubling down on other people’s lives to swing for the fence and try for it in one step.

    3. Do all corporations in USA oppose Medicare for all? Or only some corporations? Do some corporations support it? Is Medicare the only issue that corporate donors want to influence American politicians on?
    I think a lot of them oppose it. Corporate medical benefits are part of the indenture articles. That benefits them.

    4. Do you think that the Poster(s) you call "You"
    It was marc
    think that Medicare is the only issue corporations want to influence American politicians on? If not, why did you isolate that issue with what appears to be a deflecting, rhetorical question? Or is it?
    I isolated it because it was mentioned in his answer.

  2. Top | #12
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    The DNC is doing just fine. Keep up the good work!
    Asking for serious answers, please, not poo-flinging. There’s a whole forum Elsewhere for that.

  3. Top | #13
    Contributor Trausti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    The DNC is doing just fine. Keep up the good work!
    Asking for serious answers, please, not poo-flinging. There’s a whole forum Elsewhere for that.
    Very serious. Much happy with their work of late.

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Like Rhea, I live in a red/blue district. It's actually red in the way that it votes, but that's due to gerrymandering. My county is about half black and half white racially. I know many Republicans that are sheep, while all of my Democratic friends have their own ideas, but they all know we must unite in the end if we want to make any progress at all. It's really that simple.
    For clarity - my district is not Red:Blue like it is purple. It is 3Red:1Blue. There are 75% GOP voters, and 25% Dem voters.

  5. Top | #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    9. The progressives have been successful in getting a few people in so far, and have changed political discussions to include talk about M4A and GND, which likely would not have happened if they never tried.
    10. It is not so much a purge of moderates that is needed, but getting away from the corporate democrats
    When you said that it’s corporate democrats standing in the way of progressive ideas like M4A, I responded to that asking, basically, how you thought their few votes were making it happen. My experience is that there ate a LOT of democratic voters who do not want it. (I think they are wrong, in fact I prefer UHC).
    I think there is a lot of support for M4A, and many people see it as a form of UHC or a significant step towards it. There is enough support that the subject is brought up on debate stage, that the Koch brothers commissioned a study to try and counter it, that there are talking points to oppose it. Talking points that people like Biden have repeated.

    But I do not see that there are some “corporate interests” in the DNC which keep us from it at this time. It’s voters. We do not have enough Democratic supporters of the idea yet. (I think we can get there in one presidential term, though, if we had the Senate, which Obama only had for 10 months, alas.)
    There are apparently enough to force politicians to at least talk about it. There are enough that there is pushback.



    What’s standing in our way on gun control is the fucking GOP.
    Yes I know. I was using gun control as a clear example of how popular support matters little, it is the donors that have far more influence on policy. Now the DNC is not nearly as corrupted as the GOP, but in an effort to competemoney wise they are going down the same path. In the case of healthcare, insurance and pharmaceutical companies are the main influencers.



    Alas. The Dem voters did not turn out to stop Trump. Some, because they thought the Dems are “just as bad.” And now things that progressives care about are being destroyed byt the GOP. Women’s rights, worker rights, environmental protection, jusdges who would rule fairly. THings that the dems, even the centrist ones, would never have done and you know it.
    Yes, those "just as bad" or "both sides" arguments are incredibly stupid, and work to the GOP's advantage. I may have problems with the DNC, they are leagues better. I voted for Sanders in the '16 primaries, Hillary in the general. This year I'll vote for Sanders again, and whoever is the dems candidate.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc View Post
    I think there is a lot of support for M4A, and many people see it as a form of UHC or a significant step towards it. There is enough support that the subject is brought up on debate stage, that the Koch brothers commissioned a study to try and counter it, that there are talking points to oppose it. Talking points that people like Biden have repeated.

    But I do not see that there are some “corporate interests” in the DNC which keep us from it at this time. It’s voters. We do not have enough Democratic supporters of the idea yet. (I think we can get there in one presidential term, though, if we had the Senate, which Obama only had for 10 months, alas.)
    There are apparently enough to force politicians to at least talk about it. There are enough that there is pushback.



    What’s standing in our way on gun control is the fucking GOP.
    Yes I know. I was using gun control as a clear example of how popular support matters little, it is the donors that have far more influence on policy. Now the DNC is not nearly as corrupted as the GOP, but in an effort to competemoney wise they are going down the same path. In the case of healthcare, insurance and pharmaceutical companies are the main influencers.



    Alas. The Dem voters did not turn out to stop Trump. Some, because they thought the Dems are “just as bad.” And now things that progressives care about are being destroyed byt the GOP. Women’s rights, worker rights, environmental protection, jusdges who would rule fairly. THings that the dems, even the centrist ones, would never have done and you know it.
    Yes, those "just as bad" or "both sides" arguments are incredibly stupid, and work to the GOP's advantage. I may have problems with the DNC, they are leagues better. I voted for Sanders in the '16 primaries, Hillary in the general. This year I'll vote for Sanders again, and whoever is the dems candidate.
    The difference is, there are loud and active forces to combat problems seen in the DNC, and corporate interests in high places oppose them quietly. There are loud and active forces in the GOP to double down on it's problems in high places, and everyone else just stays quiet and goes with it...

    I'm one of the people looking to reform the DNC. Anyone saying it doesn't have a Hillary, Biden, Bloomberg and Perez problem hasn't been paying attention

  7. Top | #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by marc View Post
    I think there is a lot of support for M4A, and many people see it as a form of UHC or a significant step towards it. There is enough support that the subject is brought up on debate stage, that the Koch brothers commissioned a study to try and counter it, that there are talking points to oppose it. Talking points that people like Biden have repeated.


    There are apparently enough to force politicians to at least talk about it. There are enough that there is pushback.




    Yes I know. I was using gun control as a clear example of how popular support matters little, it is the donors that have far more influence on policy. Now the DNC is not nearly as corrupted as the GOP, but in an effort to competemoney wise they are going down the same path. In the case of healthcare, insurance and pharmaceutical companies are the main influencers.



    Alas. The Dem voters did not turn out to stop Trump. Some, because they thought the Dems are “just as bad.” And now things that progressives care about are being destroyed byt the GOP. Women’s rights, worker rights, environmental protection, jusdges who would rule fairly. THings that the dems, even the centrist ones, would never have done and you know it.
    Yes, those "just as bad" or "both sides" arguments are incredibly stupid, and work to the GOP's advantage. I may have problems with the DNC, they are leagues better. I voted for Sanders in the '16 primaries, Hillary in the general. This year I'll vote for Sanders again, and whoever is the dems candidate.
    The difference is, there are loud and active forces to combat problems seen in the DNC, and corporate interests in high places oppose them quietly. There are loud and active forces in the GOP to double down on it's problems in high places, and everyone else just stays quiet and goes with it...

    I'm one of the people looking to reform the DNC. To say it doesn't have a Hillary, Biden, Bloomberg and Perez problem hasn't been paying attention
    So having people in a party with differing ideas is a problem? You want everyone to be lock in step with each other? How boring.

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post

    The difference is, there are loud and active forces to combat problems seen in the DNC, and corporate interests in high places oppose them quietly. There are loud and active forces in the GOP to double down on it's problems in high places, and everyone else just stays quiet and goes with it...

    I'm one of the people looking to reform the DNC. To say it doesn't have a Hillary, Biden, Bloomberg and Perez problem hasn't been paying attention
    So having people in a party with differing ideas is a problem? You want everyone to be lock in step with each other? How boring.
    No, just in touch with the actual constituency, not merely doing their best to say one thing and do another.

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post

    The difference is, there are loud and active forces to combat problems seen in the DNC, and corporate interests in high places oppose them quietly. There are loud and active forces in the GOP to double down on it's problems in high places, and everyone else just stays quiet and goes with it...

    I'm one of the people looking to reform the DNC. To say it doesn't have a Hillary, Biden, Bloomberg and Perez problem hasn't been paying attention
    So having people in a party with differing ideas is a problem? You want everyone to be lock in step with each other? How boring.
    No, just in touch with the actual constituency, not merely doing their best to say one thing and do another.
    So do you believe that there are no moderates in the democratic party? Or do you believe that moderates shouldn't have some representation?

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    I'd bring up a "Name the candidates Sanders supported in the primaries in 2018 That Won" challenge. This is important for realizing that the DNC is trying to win elections in states like Texas and Louisiana and Utah as well as New York. The demographics vary heavily. Senator Jones in Alabama isn't getting elected if he strays too far from right of center, but can vote to get the big really important stuff through, ie, picking your fights.
    I wanted to fill in the gaps here. For the US House, of the thirteen challengers Sanders supported in the primaries, only three went on to win. Of the eight Governors, only two won the General Election. The Dems swept the 2018 election.

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