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Thread: The Illusion of Self

  1. Top | #341
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    A subjective report does not by some magic become an objective report when somebody hears it.

    It is always a subjective report and can never be more than that.

  2. Top | #342
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    A subjective report does not by some magic become an objective report when somebody hears it.

    It is always a subjective report and can never be more than that.
    A person speaking is an objective event.

  3. Top | #343
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Yes. A person speaking is an objective event, yet and the report of one speaking remains subjective.

    A subjective report becomes objective when some inventive person finds ways to attach objective physical event measures to subjective claims, permitting re-organization of the subjective world into a world that is material and measured.

    Each of us know this is true because we have access to tools that can take apart and measure the elements coming to us about the event. We can video and audio a person speaking. We have built devices that permit us to reproduce those activities. Those reproductions can be preserved and repeated to us.

    A person speaking is a material (objective) event independent of one reporting the observation.

    For instance the subjective reality a person presumes when one sees the sun move across the sky above becomes an objective reality that one lives on a planet circling star in a solar system in a universe where much movement is determined and influenced by gravity.

    One still has the subjective experience because the sun does appear from one's perspective to be circling the earth. But wise persons have managed to find laws that govern the world on which one lives that are not those one's eye and other senses subjectively report. Rather one lives an objective reality much different than one subjectively presumes.

    enough into the rubble for ya?

  4. Top | #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    A subjective report does not by some magic become an objective report when somebody hears it.

    It is always a subjective report and can never be more than that.
    A person speaking is an objective event.
    They are giving a subjective report about a subjective experience.

    It will never be an objective report.

    It is in no way objective data.

  5. Top | #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    A subjective report becomes objective when some inventive person finds ways to attach objective physical event measures to subjective claims, permitting re-organization of the subjective world into a world that is material and measured.
    Delusion!

    A subjective report can never be anything but a subjective report.

    If there is some data about physiology connected temporally to a subjective report the data will never make the report objective.

  6. Top | #346
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    I didn't say it wasn't. I said that attaching physical event measures to the elements generating subjective claims is an entirely different animal.

    What is your problem?

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