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Thread: Too many white people at UVA Multicultural Student Center

  1. Top | #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Not even getting into 'too many POC' living in this neighborhood/attending this school 'causing' white flight.'
    People of color don't cause white flight. White flight is caused by inferior students--it's a recognition that schools reflect the students far more than cause the students. It's just most of them are non-white, but you would see the same thing if you had a bunch of immigrants from someplace like Russia.
    Wrong, it's pretty much any large number of black (and Native in some areas) students. And when the nonwhite students do well, they're immediately accused of cheating, often without evidence. We know that the classrooms, as well as the neighborhoods, very much "cause" the students.

    And you skipped right over the issue of "white flight" from neighborhoods, under the now outdated notion that "too many" black people will automatically cause home values to fall.
    You see the same thing with a bunch of refugee students. It's not the color of the skin, it's their ability as students.

  2. Top | #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    For my self, the term non-white still holds white as the norm against which all other people are judged. I find that politically charged and offensive just as using male as the norm or standard is offensive.
    And you think somehow "coloured people" or "people of colour" is somehow different? Can't that still be that these people over here are "of colour" as opposed to just the standard (white) people? What do you even call white people in that terminology? People lacking colour? How about the melanin deprived?

    If your skin does not change color when angry or hot or cold, you will be the only person I know of any ancestry for whom this is true.
    It does. Just considerably less so than you pale white chameleons.

  3. Top | #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by krypton iodine sulfur View Post

    How does it create more? It describes an existing minority/majority dynamic with regard to race in a shorthand for the various demographics experiencing the minority side of the equation--it didn't create that dynamic. So what racism did it create? Or in what manner did it create more of the same?



    These aren't mutually exclusive. I have never once met a person who uses the identifier 'POC' to suggest they lack commonality and belongingness with people in general, or that they were somehow absolutely different from me.
    Defining people as "black" or "asian" as if that sums up who they are and as if they are interchangeable is bad enough. "People of Colour" takes it even further. And the smarmy politically correct nature of that term, while "coloured people" is considered derogatory, is just stupid. If you want to talk about people who aren't white? Why not just say non-white? Why reach for the weird contortions of language? Besides, its the white people who turn blue when cold, red when hot or angry, etc. My skin is far more consistent in shade. Its always yellowy brown. And it shouldn't matter.
    So now we see the problem: you won't want to be lumped into any category [removed]
    [message removed for violation of TOU]
    Last edited by Rhea; 02-27-2020 at 02:56 AM. Reason: Removed violation of TOU

  4. Top | #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Not even getting into 'too many POC' living in this neighborhood/attending this school 'causing' white flight.'
    People of color don't cause white flight. White flight is caused by inferior students--it's a recognition that schools reflect the students far more than cause the students. It's just most of them are non-white, but you would see the same thing if you had a bunch of immigrants from someplace like Russia.
    And just who do you think those 'inferior students' are?

    Loren, people abandon neighborhoods as soon as the first family who is the 'wrong' color/religion/ethnicity moves in. Even if there are no children.
    Someone that racist is going to have a hard time finding any place to live these days.

    And it's irrelevant who the inferior students are, only that they exist. You are once again assuming disparate impact = discrimination. It's a rational choice to leave when you see the schools are going to go down, and enough inferior students (note that this includes those with limited English no matter what their intelligence) will lower school quality.

  5. Top | #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post

    Wrong, it's pretty much any large number of black (and Native in some areas) students. And when the nonwhite students do well, they're immediately accused of cheating, often without evidence. We know that the classrooms, as well as the neighborhoods, very much "cause" the students.

    And you skipped right over the issue of "white flight" from neighborhoods, under the now outdated notion that "too many" black people will automatically cause home values to fall.
    You see the same thing with a bunch of refugee students. It's not the color of the skin, it's their ability as students.
    Funny how you and other people figure that skin color/country of origin/religion/ethnicity determines the ability of students. And you know that just by the fact that they aren’t as white or the right kind of Asian as you.

  6. Top | #136
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    The ironic bit of this is that when I say I don't appreciate the prejudice of defining people by race, and doubly so as she generalizes more and more individuals into monoliths (now it's "people of colour" as if we are all the same) she will take offence and claim I am aggressive towards her.... because she is a woman. Attack on race; hide behind gender. Riiight.

  7. Top | #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    And just who do you think those 'inferior students' are?

    Loren, people abandon neighborhoods as soon as the first family who is the 'wrong' color/religion/ethnicity moves in. Even if there are no children.
    Someone that racist is going to have a hard time finding any place to live these days.

    And it's irrelevant who the inferior students are, only that they exist. You are once again assuming disparate impact = discrimination. It's a rational choice to leave when you see the schools are going to go down, and enough inferior students (note that this includes those with limited English no matter what their intelligence) will lower school quality.
    Loren, I’m not assuming and educational outcomes. I’m pointing out that people abandon neighborhoods or even just blocks if they don’t care for the complexions or accents of their new neighbors. Even if there are no kids

    You seem to be making some assumptions about educational outcomes based on being not white/right kind of Asian
    tho.

  8. Top | #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    So now we see the problem: you won't want to be lumped into any category [removed]
    [TOU violation removed]
    My remarks on what I see as a logical conclusion of your post is not intended as goading.
    Last edited by Rhea; 02-27-2020 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Consistency

  9. Top | #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    The key difference is that we all recognize it as wrong when it is done to non-white people.
    Do we, though?
    Yes, we do. You wont find anyone posting in this thread who doesn't. Do people exist who are outright white separatists? Yes. And they are near universally condembed by society and shamed. Metaphor has a point when he says that this woman being cheered for such an attitude against white people is a problem.

    And your own posting leaves us wondering if you condemn such behaviour against white people. It is clear to everyone that Metaphor condemns it against non-white people.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    Metaphor started a thread recently about Grindr not allowing people to post expressions of racial bias in their listings, and gave 'no Asians' as an example. He was against Grindr's actions and in favor of people being very blatant about their racism. .

    He also started a thread a while back expressing his opposition to eliminating gender bias in the Hasty Pudding Reviews at Yale. His basic stance was 'no females onstage' and his justification was that if women were onstage performing, the entire thing would be "ruined".

    I've been trying to understand how his position in those threads lined up with his posts in this one. Right now it looks like he's just defending the status quo in our society. He's not arguing against any kind of bias except that which negatively affects white men. It appears he thinks 'there's too many white people in the multicultural center' is worse than 'no Asians' and 'no women allowed'.
    Last edited by Arctish; 02-26-2020 at 05:00 AM.

  10. Top | #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctish View Post
    Metaphor started a thread recently about Grindr not allowing people to post expressions of racial bias in their listings, and gave 'no Asians' as an example. He was against Grindr's actions and in favor of people being very blatant about their racism. .
    Of course I was. Grindr is not a room in a public university, it's a goddamned hookup app.

    He also started a thread a while back expressing his opposition to eliminating gender bias in the Hasty Pudding Reviews at Yale.
    Good god. Having an acting troupe whose entire point is that female roles are played by men in drag is not an acting troupe that is 'gender biased' - it's sex-exclusionary.

    His basic stance was 'no females onstage' and his justification was that if women were onstage performing, the entire thing would be "ruined".
    It would destroy the Hasty Pudding Reviews, yes. As in, the HPR would not be the same thing it was before and after such a change. The original would be destroyed and something different would have taken its place. You can imagine that the thing that replaces it is better for everyone, but the people who should decide that are the members of HPR, not non-members.

    I've been trying to understand how his position in those threads lined up with his posts in this one. Right now it looks like he's just defending the status quo in our society. He's not arguing against any kind of bias except that which affects white men. It appears he thinks 'there's too many white people in the multicultural center' is worse than 'no Asians' and 'no women allowed'.
    I'm trying to understand how you think there's a conflict.

    Do I think that people shouldn't go around in publically-funded, public spaces and shame people, based on their ethnicity, in order for those people to remove themselves? Yes, that behaviour is awful and should not be tolerated. That woman may have been so fragile that seeing white people in the same room 'overwhelmed' her, but that's her fucking problem.

    Do I think that Grindr made a bad decision when it banned overt profile messages about certain sexual preferences? Yes. Nobody on Grindr has proposed banning Asians from being on Grindr. Nobody on Grindr has proposed banning fatties from Grindr. Grindr is not a room where people shout their preferences at you. You have to click on a person's profile picture to read their profile. When I see a profile that says "no fatties", that hurts, but it doesn't hurt as much as seeing a blank profile and then getting that as the first response when I message a guy, or to be immediately blocked. In any case, my commenting on Grindr's rules is my comment on them. Grindr gets to decide. (And if there was an all-white dating app, or an all-Asian dating app, I wouldn't give a fuck).

    The last case you bring up is the most bizarre to me. If there were an all-female, black acting troupe that wrote sketches and performed on stage, I'd have to be out of my fucking mind to say "why don't you let some white guys in?" They don't need to let white guys in because that would destroy their troupe. Even if every white guy they let in could write and act better than every existing member, art isn't a democracy and you don't tell artists what material they should be putting out. I can't believe this even needs saying.

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