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Thread: Porn undermines women's free speech?

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Yes. And of the two I’d say the case against porn is far thinner, specifically regarding erosion of free speech by others I mean. For starters, and unlike political propaganda and lies, it’s basically fiction, and readily seen as such. Hence the frequent references to ‘porn stars’ and ‘actors’ etc. There might be other issues of course.

    Not only that, but I’ve watched my fair share of porn and I can’t say that actors supposedly not consenting at first and then ‘giving in’ (because they really wanted it after all) is something I’m sure I’ve even seen, although it is apparently a common sexual fantasy. So it seems unrepresentative of porn generally in any case.

    Actors pretending to enjoy stuff they may not actually be enjoying is another matter. I can see how that sort of thing can negatively affect people, perhaps especially women, in real life. Guys, for example, thinking that it’s normal for a woman to enjoy a man ejaculating in their mouth, or rough sex (eg being slapped) or anal sex, to the point of the man assuming it’s ok and/or the woman feeling pressured to do it.

    So, could we say that if a woman declined such things, her free speech is undermined if the man does not accept that, for whatever reason, including that he has trouble distinguishing porn scenarios from real life ones?

    It’s an issue, obviously, but it still seems a bit odd to look at it as a free speech issue.
    Last edited by ruby sparks; 02-28-2020 at 12:08 AM.

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  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Yes. And of the two I’d say the case against porn is far thinner, specifically regarding erosion of free speech by others I mean. For starters, and unlike political propaganda and lies, it’s basically fiction, and readily seen as such. Hence the frequent references to ‘porn stars’ and ‘actors’ etc. There might be other issues of course.

    Not only that, but I’ve watched my fair share of porn and I can’t say that actors supposedly not consenting at first and then ‘giving in’ (because they really wanted it after all) is something I’m sure I’ve even seen, although it is apparently a common sexual fantasy. So it seems unrepresentative of porn generally in any case.

    Actors pretending to enjoy stuff they may not actually be enjoying is another matter. I can see how that sort of thing can negatively affect people, perhaps especially women, in real life. Guys, for example, thinking that it’s normal for a woman to enjoy a man ejaculating in their mouth, or rough sex (eg being slapped) or anal sex, to the point of the man assuming it’s ok and/or the woman feeling pressured to do it.

    So, could we say that if a woman declined such things, her free speech is undermined if the man does not accept that?

    It’s an issue, obviously, but it still seems a bit odd to look at it as a free speech issue.
    Agreed. I'd say that women's bodily rights, not her speech rights, were violated if the man doesn't accept her objections. That said, the porn makers may have some ethical culpability if they created porn likely to make more men ignore women's objections and/or attempt unwanted acts without asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Damn, I miss Louie. The irony is that Better Things, which he created, is one of the best "feminist"/"strong females" shows on tv, and it's 3rd season was good but suffered in his absence.

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Damn, I miss Louie. The irony is that Better Things, which he created, is one of the best "feminist"/"strong females" shows on tv, and it's 3rd season was good but suffered in his absence.
    Indeed. Great show. I think he co-wrote with Pamela Adlon?

    I’m just starting on season 3.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Yes. And of the two I’d say the case against porn is far thinner, specifically regarding erosion of free speech by others I mean. For starters, and unlike political propaganda and lies, it’s basically fiction, and readily seen as such. Hence the frequent references to ‘porn stars’ and ‘actors’ etc. There might be other issues of course.

    Not only that, but I’ve watched my fair share of porn and I can’t say that actors supposedly not consenting at first and then ‘giving in’ (because they really wanted it after all) is something I’m sure I’ve even seen, although it is apparently a common sexual fantasy. So it seems unrepresentative of porn generally in any case.

    Actors pretending to enjoy stuff they may not actually be enjoying is another matter. I can see how that sort of thing can negatively affect people, perhaps especially women, in real life. Guys, for example, thinking that it’s normal for a woman to enjoy a man ejaculating in their mouth, or rough sex (eg being slapped) or anal sex, to the point of the man assuming it’s ok and/or the woman feeling pressured to do it.

    So, could we say that if a woman declined such things, her free speech is undermined if the man does not accept that?

    It’s an issue, obviously, but it still seems a bit odd to look at it as a free speech issue.
    Agreed. I'd say that women's bodily rights, not her speech rights, were violated if the man doesn't accept her objections. That said, the porn makers may have some ethical culpability if they created porn likely to make more men ignore women's objections and/or attempt unwanted acts without asking.
    Things get weird when sex is involved. Over the past 60 years, I am sure I have seen video depictions of robberies and other crimes where the victims were not asked for permission and strenuously objected to being assaulted.

    The comparison is fair. On most days, I take money from another person. So far, this other person may have been reluctant, but always willingly handed over the cash. To an objective observer, there maybe no apparent difference between this transaction and robbery.

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