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Thread: AS DEFICIT EXPLODES, GOP DEMANDS EMERGENCY TAX CUT FOR THE RICH

  1. Top | #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Poverty in the United States:
    Poverty:
    The official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017. This is the fourth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 3.0 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 11.8 percent.
    The problem with this is that it doesn't count the various forms of welfare. Once you count them it's more like half a percent.
    Not according to the Census Bureau's alternative measure - the supplemental poverty measure (SPM) - that accounts for those various gov't benefits and some other things. In 2018 it was 12.8% (https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html). This article explains the SPM https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html)
    Something's strange there--EITC is 3x the effect of SNAP?? And almost as much as all government benefits? And Medicare and Medicaid aren't even on the list?

  2. Top | #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Not according to the Census Bureau's alternative measure - the supplemental poverty measure (SPM) - that accounts for those various gov't benefits and some other things. In 2018 it was 12.8% (https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html). This article explains the SPM https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html)
    Something's strange there--EITC is 3x the effect of SNAP?? And almost as much as all government benefits? And Medicare and Medicaid aren't even on the list?
    I have no idea what you are posting about. I do know that an official gov't estimate that includes noncash benefits and the EITC disputes your handwaved estimate. You have not provided any evidence to support your claim. This article explains it https://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/933704...overty-measure.

    PS - Medicare is not a form of welfare.

  3. Top | #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Poverty in the United States:
    Poverty:
    The official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017. This is the fourth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 3.0 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 11.8 percent.
    The problem with this is that it doesn't count the various forms of welfare. Once you count them it's more like half a percent.
    Where are you getting your information from? Evidence please.

  4. Top | #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Not according to the Census Bureau's alternative measure - the supplemental poverty measure (SPM) - that accounts for those various gov't benefits and some other things. In 2018 it was 12.8% (https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html). This article explains the SPM https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-268.html)
    Something's strange there--EITC is 3x the effect of SNAP?? And almost as much as all government benefits? And Medicare and Medicaid aren't even on the list?
    I have no idea what you are posting about. I do know that an official gov't estimate that includes noncash benefits and the EITC disputes your handwaved estimate. You have not provided any evidence to support your claim. This article explains it https://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/933704...overty-measure.

    PS - Medicare is not a form of welfare.
    I was looking at the link you provided. It's supposed to include non-cash benefits, yet does not include Medicaid.

  5. Top | #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    I have no idea what you are posting about. I do know that an official gov't estimate that includes noncash benefits and the EITC disputes your handwaved estimate. You have not provided any evidence to support your claim. This article explains it https://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/933704...overty-measure.

    PS - Medicare is not a form of welfare.
    I was looking at the link you provided. It's supposed to include non-cash benefits, yet does not include Medicaid.
    Even if that is true, unless you are claiming that Medicaid would reduce the estimate from around 12% to 0.5%, you need to provide some actual support for your claim.

  6. Top | #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    I have no idea what you are posting about. I do know that an official gov't estimate that includes noncash benefits and the EITC disputes your handwaved estimate. You have not provided any evidence to support your claim. This article explains it https://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/933704...overty-measure.

    PS - Medicare is not a form of welfare.
    I was looking at the link you provided. It's supposed to include non-cash benefits, yet does not include Medicaid.
    Even if that is true, unless you are claiming that Medicaid would reduce the estimate from around 12% to 0.5%, you need to provide some actual support for your claim.
    I'm saying that the data at the link doesn't make sense. I'm not finding an exact definition of what it includes and it doesn't list something it should.

  7. Top | #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Even if that is true, unless you are claiming that Medicaid would reduce the estimate from around 12% to 0.5%, you need to provide some actual support for your claim.
    I'm saying that the data at the link doesn't make sense.
    It makes sense to the people at the Census bureau and to many others. It is an alternative measure that disputes your unsubstantiated claim. Rather than evading the issue of substantiating your claim, you are concentrating on "trying to understand" the SPM. Whether you understand it or not is irrelevant to my point that your claim about the poverty rate is unsubstantiated. It remains so, even though you have had plenty of time to provide documentation. Two posters have repeatedly asked you for it, and yet, nothing. Why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    I'm not finding an exact definition of what it includes and it doesn't list something it should.
    This is not hard to find. Google Supplemental Poverty measures. This publication - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blog..._suppleme.html- does provide information in the technical appendices. Medicare premiums as well as medical expenses are included.


    More to the point, whether you like or understand the well-documented SPM is irrelevant to the fact that you have been unable to provide any link or data to support your outlandish claim that including all gov't benefits and services reduces the poverty rate to half a percent or less.

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