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Thread: COLOUR

  1. Top | #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Pain is sensed.
    Pain is a subjective experience.

    The damage to tissue sends a signal to the brain that reflexively creates the experience of pain from it. The brain gets no information about pain from damaged tissue. Bone breaking is not pain. Nerves being torn is not pain. A mechanical or chemical or thermal stimulus is not pain.

    All the information about pain and color is in the brain and in it's systems that create experience.

    That an organism responds to these inputs is all that is needed for the organism to avoid further damage by withdrawing, retracting, or crying out.
    The experience of pain is a survival mechanism.

    The mechanics of pain response are mostly unconscious in nature.
    There is the experience too.

    That is for the mind and for the mind to learn the things to avoid.

    A very successful survival skill.

  2. Top | #782
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Do by reflexive do you intend to suggest neural clusters along the spinal cord are brain. Or are you trying to suggest consciousness produces responses in under 200 ms time frame that reflex actions take to execute? Most protective responses are reflexive not conscious responses. Pain acts on consciousness in much the way I described in my post. It does not produce protective action consciousness is based on activating fearful behavior and protective, self serving, and defensive mental behavior.

    Most all pain induced response is reflexive, quick, retreating, defensive. That is the beauty of pain sense responsiveness.

    Most of the time we are on either automatic learned behavior patterns or reflexive patterns, most of what we refer to as conscious behavior is historical recording and rationalization and recall. Humans really don't spend much time experiencing present activity anything. More likely we spend lots of time reminiscing and rehearsing and justifying. the advanced brain is capable of producing mc uch creative activity if we permit it. Generally though the conscious brain is busy justifying what it has done.

    if you've ever boxed you know that a good fighter learns to make proper defensive move almost reflectively via practice and conditioning. If he had to be inventing during the fight he'd get killed.

    I'm glad you brought up pain because it is the perfect exemplar on how we survive mainly by reflex.

    I agree it is for the mind to learn things to avoid and take advantage. But that is leisure time activity not on the job activity.

  3. Top | #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Do by reflexive do you intend to suggest neural clusters along the spinal cord are brain.
    I suggest that if there is any activity that is not experienced that activity is not pain.

    Pain is the experience.

    There is more than pain. There is reflexive activity of muscles. Sometimes shutting down muscles and sometimes ramping up their tone.

    Pain is a subjective experience and can be worsened with emotional input. It can be controlled by the mind as well. But usually only if that is practiced.

  4. Top | #784
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    I suggest that if there is any activity that is not experienced that activity is not pain.
    So what we have is an integration of local, gate, and cognitive models of pain primarily oriented to clinical treatment of chronic pain pathologies. The theory acknowledges local, and systemic models of pain arousal and perception for treatment of pain syndromes. Yes, pathology of pain is a significant cost issue for those who experience chronic pain. Yet it must be acknowledged there are local and segmented aspects of pain response at the base of cognitive pathologies. Without local and spinal level response systems persons could not respond effectively to local signals that produce more or less reflexive outcomes which are those that permit immediate countermeasure action.

    Pain and the Neuromatrix in the Brain
    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdo...=rep1&type=pdf

    (This model is essentially an integration of local and systems models of pain concentrating on the cognitive aspects primarily for suggesting ways one should approach the issues of pain pathology and clinical treatment)

    The Multiple Determinants of Pain The neuromatrix theory of pain proposes that the neuro-signature for pain experience is determined by the synaptic architecture of the neuromatrix, which is produced by genetic and sensory influences. The neuro-signature pattern is also modulated by sensory inputs and by cognitive events, such as psychological stress. It may also occur because stressors, physical as well as psychological, act on stress-regulation systems, which may produce lesions of muscle, bone, and nerve tissue, thereby contributing to the neuro-signature patterns that give rise to chronic pain. In short, the neuromatrix, as a result of homeostasis regulation patterns that have failed, produces the destructive conditions that may give rise to many of the chronic pains that so far have been resistant to treatments developed primarily to manage pains that are triggered by sensory inputs. The stress regulation system, with its complex, delicately balanced interactions, is an integral part of the multiple contributions that give rise to chronic pain. The neuromatrix theory guides us away from the Cartesian concept of pain as a sensation produced by injury, inflammation, or other tissue pathology and toward the concept of pain as a multi-dimensional experience produced by multiple influences. These influences range from the existing synaptic architecture of the neuromatrix—which is determined by genetic and sensory factors—to influences from within the body and from other areas in the brain. Genetic influences on synaptic architecture may determine, or predispose toward, the development of chronic pain syndromes. Figure 1 summarizes the factors that contribute to the output pattern from the neuromatrix that produce the sensory, affective, and cognitive dimensions of pain experience and behavior. We have traveled a long way from the psychophysical concept that seeks a simple one-to-one relationship between injury and pain. We now have a theoretical framework in which a genetically determined template for the body-self is modulated by the powerful stress system and the cognitive functions of the brain, in addition to the traditional sensory inputs. The neuromatrix theory of pain—which places genetic contributions and the neural-hormonal mechanisms of stress on a level of equal importance with the neural mechanisms of sensory transmission—has important implications for research and therapy. The expansion of the field of pain to include endocrinology and immunology may lead to insights and new research strategies that will reveal the underlying mechanisms of chronic pain and give rise to new therapies to relieve the tragedy of unrelenting suffering.
    The following dissertation pretty much sums up thinking on pain as of 2021 as a modified particularized neuromatrix theory of pain.

    The Pain and Movement Reasoning Model:Exploring utility and suitability http://file:///C:/Users/kendrick%20n...ads/Thesis.pdf

    While a clinical reasoning model for Western acupuncture based on mechanisms is a useful basis for clinical practice, working from a holistic paradigm involves consideration of the individual’s psychological state in addition to their physiological state. There is strong evidence from neuroscience and brain–body medicine which supports current ideas that thinking and feeling can affect physiological responses in the human body. There is also good evidence that acupuncture can influence brain regions important for the integration of sensations and emotions, and modulate output transfer systems influencing homeostatic regulation. Acupuncture may prove to be an adjuvant in musculoskeletal disorders with emotional or psychosocial components. This has led to the development of a biopsychosocial clinical reasoning model for Western acupuncture
    I'm aware of the cognitive price of chronic pain experience. My son has a genetic conditions whereby his skeletal system is fusing into a pain enclosure taking up most of his cognitive energy. This does not reduce the importance of the local genesis of pain nor his current disease state.

  5. Top | #785
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    The stimulus for pain like the stimulus for color is NOT the experience. The processing of pain like the processing of vision is NOT the experience.

    The experience of pain is something the brain creates from the stimulation it receives from the periphery and that experience is influenced by the psychology of the sufferer.

    Looking at peripheral nerves or brain architecture will never show you what pain is.

    I remember 30 years ago and the first lecture in physical therapy school about pain and my expectation that pain would be explained and I will treat it easily.

    Unfortunately the first thing the professor said was: "Pain is a subjective experience". Then we learned about how the experience of pain can arise how neural signals that lead to the creation of the experience of pain travel to the brain and how pain can be treated.

    But it is not easy since pain is a subjective matter, not always something in the body.

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