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Thread: COLOUR

  1. Top | #891
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    If you care to look into how the electromagnetic spectrum is parsed you will find it is parsed by what makes use of it or what responds to it. Those are perfectly adequate operational definitions of the media since their definitions are material, measurable, and standardized.



    unterensche instead prefers to call the entire spectrum invisible. It is his right. But he can't then conclude that because he called it invisible that it can't be characterized by what responds to it, what uses it, or what can be characterized by it. Using color in those circumstances are all material and correct statements and nothing is created by some self referenced subjective thing.

    If anything material is characteristically responsive to or produce particular frequencies those events are sufficient for naming and treating that light relative to those particular bandwidths of light that make physical matter change or use it. Terms of color are useful in such situations because they have physical and methodological material meaning. It is not invisible in those circumstances.

    Just as when one finds that particular spectrum are produced when matter reacts to produce energy that the temperatures at which the energy is produced is indicated by a signature temperature and frequency. One can characterize such objects by their detection using visible light sensitive media.

    Bottom line if there are material bases for naming parts of the spectrum the naming becomes a material descriptor.

    Insisting light is invisible when it materially isn't is both a logical and and empirical error. For instance radio waves within atmospheres are more or less transmissible depending on the chemical and physical makeup of the medium. Knowing the attributes of the atmospheres makes possible predicting transmissibility and production of instruments for transmitting such EM.

  2. Top | #892
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    The energy is invisible.

    You never see it.

    To think you see the energy is laughably naive.

    You experience a visual reflex. The brain has no clue what caused the reflex.

    Nothing you say will ever make sense in this area.

    You have abandoned reason and deny the only things we know for certain.

    Our experiences.

    You think because you experience that little bar of color the brain must be getting information about color.

    That is naive anthropocentric delusion.

    There is no need for any information about color in a brain that can create things like the experience of pain.

    With certain kinds of vertigo the cause is little floating crystals in the middle ear.

    You would have us believe vertigo is expressing some feature of the crystals.

    It shows a complete lack of knowledge of the idea of stimulation.

  3. Top | #893
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    ...and untermensche's tirade above is why philosophy has been a dead study as the the nature of man for over two hundred years. The tirade also demonstrates why experimental philosophy has never taken hold. Philosophers can't resist referring to self as reason why things are the way they chant.

    End of lesson children.

  4. Top | #894
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    It is not debatable.

    The only things a human knows for certain are their experiences.

    There is no doubt you are experiencing an orange cat when you are experiencing an orange cat.

    There can be no doubt.

    You have not created a means to doubt.

    You merely doubt what can't be doubted.

    You babble irrationally then pat yourself on the back for your blindness.

  5. Top | #895
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Sometimes it's better to ignore ignorance than to combat it. Given you have no intention of discussing merits of either your or my positions this is one of those times.

    bye.

  6. Top | #896
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    I can't debate fools who claim there is some mystical information about color in waves of EM energy yet can't produce any evidence of this information for 30 pages.

    You have no understanding of the visual reflex.

    You think a trans to cis transition is information about color.

    So no understanding of basic chemistry either.

  7. Top | #897
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Just coming by to complete correction of an erroneous conclusion not based on stated facts. No one said trans to cis trans is color. It is evidence that EM frequency induces material activity. What is left is to show that that change actually gets other neurons to adapt to move toward interpreting what is signaled is of a particular frequency/color all the way up the ascending optic pathway to cortex.

    Complex. Take your time. It's important.

  8. Top | #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    No one said trans to cis trans is color. It is evidence that EM frequency induces material activity.
    To your mind it is.

    To the cell there is no understanding of what caused the transition.

    The cell has mechanisms that respond to the transition. The transition is merely a switch that has been activated. From millions of switches going off the brain constructs the visual experience whole. It uses evolved mechanisms to construct it.

    All the cell can possibly know is whether or not a transition has taken place.

    It has no possible way to know anything about energy.

  9. Top | #899
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    There is no yellow in this image.

    Cover the parts that are not appearing to be yellow and you will see the brain turns grey to yellow.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. Top | #900
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Here is the subtractive color wheel.

    Please note your figure includes magenta, cyan, black, red, green, and purple.

    The brain has, through it's vast quantity of inputs from receptors, access to the entire wheel, and processes to organize it (the color wheel).

    Seems pretty simple that if one can, by removing cyan, magenta, red, green and black from the figure left only the apparent yellow circle and the purple frame. the same result takes place when either the cyan or magenta
    e
    The illusion is busted.

    It is so because the brain has processes designed to produce a realizable outcome.

    The outcome without cyan, magenta, red, green, and black is the actual gray and purple result. Black, red, and green are problems with the figure since to produce black, red, and green yellow must be present. The brain takes the yellow option over the true gray option as consistent with normal percept. No mind necessary. The brain selects dominant percept over aberrant precept. Result is reveled when illogical elements are removed. So by putting hand over cyan, magenta, and black we are looking at a gray circle in a purple grid.

    Just as brain selects both sound and light moving in the direction of the light rather than the direction of the sound.
    Or brain select rod passing through rectangle rather than rod and swinging, not rotating, trapezoid.

    I've studied and written papers on many of these things. Clicks after tones perceived as clicks before tones, Masking noise intermixed with coherent speech interpreted as the entire speech rather than the masked actual presentation, und zo weiter.

    These things are not evidence of mind, they are evidence of brain processing principles and their limitations.

    The brain is a probabilistic perceptual organizer. Results (percepts) depend on probabilities based on learning.

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