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Thread: Roe vs. Wade Woman - Paid to Oppose Abortion?

  1. Top | #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    I'm always a bit perplexed by Christians at this point in the discussion, though. Because IF the fetus is a soul and IF it is aborted before becoming a baby and being born, THEN the fetus gets the unequivocally fantastic gift of being created and going straight to heaven, where there is, I've been told, no pain or suffering.

    So then if we use the commutative property, you are saying that the thing this fetus doesn't get to experience is... suffering. And you want very much for it to get a chance to suffer like all the other humans. Don't want to "lose that opportunity."

    Straight tickets to heaven and wrong and bad and unfair. That's what I feel like I'm hearing from you.

    I never did understand why Christians get so upset about souls making it to heaven without any earthly suffering. That plumb flummoxes me. But it is a remarkably strident objection to abortion. "Little Jane didn't get a chance to suffer in an earthly body, and she should have."
    All of this. Ultimately, it's a combination of horrific jealousy and exoneration. They didn't get a choice, so (a) no one should and (b) it must therefore be the greatest thing since sliced bread to exist, or else their god is a cruel and amoral monster and their entire lives are pointless. Their god forced them to be born and to suffer so therefore being born and suffering must be axiomatically a good thing so therefore force every pregnant women to give birth or else their beliefs are dogshit and they'll have to face the abyss they so desperately hide from.

    That and women are property, so punish them for thinking they can have their own autonomous agency.

  2. Top | #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Refusal to Assume Parental Responsibility (RAPR) is the voluntary relinquishment of a child into state custody.
    And its perfectly legal.
    And it causes lifelong psychological and emotional torture for both the women forced into it and the unwanted child forced to endure it.

    But Koyaanisqatsi continues to think 1.3 million abortions per year in America would suddenly stop
    Nice strawman, but aside from the fact that it's closer to 800K, thanks for pointing out what actually does make them drop:

    The number and rate of abortions across the United States have plunged to their lowest levels since the procedure became legal nationwide in 1973, according to new figures released Wednesday.

    The report from the Guttmacher Institute, a research group that supports abortion rights, counted 862,000 abortions in the U.S. in 2017. That's down from 926,000 tallied in the group's previous report for 2014, and from just more than 1 million counted for 2011.

    Guttmacher is the only entity that strives to count all abortions in the U.S., making inquiries of individual providers. Federal data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention excludes California, Maryland and New Hampshire.

    The new report illustrates that abortions are decreasing in all parts of the country, whether in Republican-controlled states seeking to restrict abortion access or in Democratic-run states protecting abortion rights. Between 2011 and 2017, abortion rates increased in only five states and the District of Columbia.

    One reason for the decline in abortions is that fewer women are becoming pregnant. The Guttmacher Institute noted that the birth rate, as well as the abortion rate, declined during the years covered by the new report. A likely factor, the report said, is increased accessibility of contraception since 2011, as the Affordable Care Act required most private health insurance plans to cover contraceptives without out-of-pocket costs.

    According to the report, the 2017 abortion rate was 13.5 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 β€” the lowest rate since the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion. Following that ruling, the number of abortions in the U.S. rose steadily β€” peaking at 1.6 million in 1990 before starting a steady, still-continuing decline. The abortion rate is now less than half what is was in 1990.

    Guttmacher noted that almost 400 state laws restricting abortion access were enacted between 2011 and 2017, but it said these laws were not the main force behind the overall decline in abortions. It said 57 percent of the nationwide decline occurred in the 18 states, plus the District of Columbia, that did not enact any new restrictions.
    So making abortion legal (and contraceptives readily available) significantly reduces their need, so if you actually gave a tiny shit about the issue you'd be a staunch advocate for both legalizing abortion and providing free contraceptives. But you evidently only give a shit about judgement. How perfectly Christian of you.

    And stop calling them 'orphans'. An orphan is a child whose parents have died.
    Just like a Christian cult member not being able to comprehend someone can be alive and still dead. Endlessly ironic.

  3. Top | #63
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Abortions arent decreasing because they are easier to obtain.
    They are decreasing because society is gradually beginning to see...


  4. Top | #64
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Is that supposed to prove something?
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

  5. Top | #65
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    I think that technology has been a big factor in the growing awareness that these are living human beings long before they exit the birth canal.

  6. Top | #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I think that technology has been a big factor in the growing awareness that these are living human beings long before they exit the birth canal.
    "Human beings" being the non-legal term instead of "person" (the legal term that carries with it legal rights), carefully chosen, no doubt.

    But good that you're a fan of technology, because the same tech shows that the survivability of any fetus outside the womb prior to around week 24 is close to zero (almost certainly at zero without technology and even then both birth defects and life expectancy plummet), which is also why most abortion laws have "viability" as a barometer, but of course you know that so now it's your turn to push the merry-go-round.

  7. Top | #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    In an abortion its the baby who dies!)
    False. Abortions terminate unwanted fetuses. Calling a fetus a baby doesn't make it a baby, and the reality is far more nuanced than your grotesque black-and-white characterizations. And you completely ignore the rights of the woman carrying this fetus, and her choices in the matter. You are not here in the spirit of debate; you are here to tell us that your opinion is right, and the rights of others be damned. That is how the authoritarian Roman Church worked for centuries, but the times have changed. You need to catch up.

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