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Thread: How many Republicans have had Enough?

  1. Top | #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    No, he'll set up shop in Mar-a-Lago and continue ruling from there via his usual system of tweet-and-toadie, giving us a confusing situation with effectively two governments ruling from opposed capitols, not unlike the current situation a Venezuela. He already has the custom of referring to it as his "Winter White House". Men like Trump are much harder to remove than to install, he does not give a shit about the rules or conventions. There will be no concession speech. The natural pull of mortality on unhealthy old bodies is the best hope for democracy at this point.
    What?

    Two governments? Are you serious? Will Trump have his own House and Senate? Who will be following his commands? The military?

    I'm sorry but this is an extremely paranoid phantasia.
    You mean like the guy who is already making a case for the election being fraudulent?

    IE, the President of the United States is saying, like you'd hear in a banana republic, the Democrats are trying to steal the election via mail-in ballots. It is like you have this filter that is capable of not seeing any of this stuff.
    Last edited by Jimmy Higgins; 06-01-2020 at 01:23 AM.

  2. Top | #32
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    How can a President pardon anybody who has not yet been tried?
    Proclamation 4311
    By it, Ford granted to Richard Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes that he might have committed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir
    I have one for you - do you really envision a scenario where Trump loses a close election, concedes, serves out his term and then faces the music for the crimes he has committed?
    I call that a near-zero possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor
    I think if Trump loses the election, he will leave his office. Whether and what he is tried for after his office will be up to the new administration and Trump won't be able to do anything about it.
    I hope you're right. It's pretty apparent to me that at this juncture Trump has no intention whatsoever of letting that happen, regardless of what he or his handlers have to instigate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Who in the world thinks Trump would feel any moral compulsion at all to refrain from declaring an election loss to be a case of fraud that he won't acquiesce to?

    That he does something to attempt to remain forcibly in office I find to be a distinctly fantasy-level paranoia. It might be good fodder for speculative fiction but it ain't reality.
    Holy Hell, dude - what we have NOW is "distinctly fantasy-level".

  3. Top | #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    No, he'll set up shop in Mar-a-Lago and continue ruling from there via his usual system of tweet-and-toadie, giving us a confusing situation with effectively two governments ruling from opposed capitols, not unlike the current situation a Venezuela. He already has the custom of referring to it as his "Winter White House". Men like Trump are much harder to remove than to install, he does not give a shit about the rules or conventions. There will be no concession speech. The natural pull of mortality on unhealthy old bodies is the best hope for democracy at this point.
    What?

    Two governments? Are you serious? Will Trump have his own House and Senate? Who will be following his commands? The military?

    I'm sorry but this is an extremely paranoid phantasia.
    You mean like the guy who is already making a case for the election being fraudulent?

    IE, the President of the United States is saying, like you'd hear in a banana republic, the Democrats are trying to steal the election via mail-in ballots. It is like you have this filter that is capable of not seeing any of this stuff.
    I'm well aware of President Trump's bluster.

    The fact that it is bluster seems to have been forgotten.

    The fact that Trump didn't really want to be President the first time around seems to have been forgotten (he wanted to win the Presidency, I reckon, but certainly not serve).

    Even if Trump 'refuses to accept' (whatever that amounts to) a defeat, it doesn't matter. He won't be in the White House, he won't be President, he will be escorted out of office and there will be nothing he can do about it.

    Honestly, are Americans so disdainful of their own institutions that you think a voted-out President can set himself up as unelected dictator?

  4. Top | #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

    Holy Hell, dude - what we have NOW is "distinctly fantasy-level".
    There have been military coups in the past. Parliaments have been dissolved at gunpoint. Old orders (themselves sometimes undemocratic) have been swept aside.

    But the idea that Trump will be able to do anything at all meaningful to stay in the Presidency if he is voted out seems to me an extraordinary denial of the stability and power of American institutions and conventions.

  5. Top | #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    You mean like the guy who is already making a case for the election being fraudulent?
    If Trump believes mail-in ballots are fraudulent or intended to enable fraud I'd say he's paranoid. But I don't know if he believes it. He just wants to set up a plausible reason for his defeat related to something that isn't his own failings.

    I'm a keen board gamer. It's very easy to attribute a win to your own strategic ability and savvy. And it's easy to attribute a loss to other factors--the setup of the board was against me from the beginning, other players conspired against me, other players had an extraordinary run of good luck. People do it all the time.

    The fact that Trump might be preparing for his own defeat seems to me completely in line with somebody who wants to save face, and not necessarily someone who plans to overturn it (how???)

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    You mean like the guy who is already making a case for the election being fraudulent?
    If Trump believes mail-in ballots are fraudulent or intended to enable fraud I'd say he's paranoid. But I don't know if he believes it. He just wants to set up a plausible reason for his defeat related to something that isn't his own failings.
    So you are saying he is banana republic'ing it then. So why are you worried about a poster thinking Trump might try to steal an election when Trump is openly trashing our democracy?

    The fact that Trump might be preparing for his own defeat seems to me completely in line with somebody who wants to save face, and not necessarily someone who plans to overturn it (how???)
    Jebus Fucking Christ! He's not necessarily trying to steal an election, he is just trying the long con to save face.

  7. Top | #37
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    Trump can say anything he wants after the election. But if he loses the electoral college vote, the only way he stays in office is with the connivance of the Secret Service, the Military, the Supreme Court and Congress. Which I think is pretty much impossible.

  8. Top | #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    So you are saying he is banana republic'ing it then. So why are you worried about a poster thinking Trump might try to steal an election when Trump is openly trashing our democracy?

    The fact that Trump might be preparing for his own defeat seems to me completely in line with somebody who wants to save face, and not necessarily someone who plans to overturn it (how???)
    Jebus Fucking Christ! He's not necessarily trying to steal an election, he is just trying the long con to save face.
    Yes. Saving face, especially for somebody with Trump's temperament, is exactly why I'd expect him to blame the world and not himself.

    Edit: laughing dog below explains why Trump staying in office if he loses is beyond the realms of possibility.

    I think it's unhealthy to engage in this phantasia that Trump is more powerful than two hundred years of institutions and convention, in the most powerful country in the world, at a time in history where that country is at the peak of its power.

    Believing it could happen is more delusional than believing mail in ballots are a Democrat conspiracy.

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    No, he'll set up shop in Mar-a-Lago and continue ruling from there via his usual system of tweet-and-toadie, giving us a confusing situation with effectively two governments ruling from opposed capitols, not unlike the current situation a Venezuela. He already has the custom of referring to it as his "Winter White House". Men like Trump are much harder to remove than to install, he does not give a shit about the rules or conventions. There will be no concession speech. The natural pull of mortality on unhealthy old bodies is the best hope for democracy at this point.
    What?

    Two governments? Are you serious? Will Trump have his own House and Senate? Who will be following his commands? The military?

    I'm sorry but this is an extremely paranoid phantasia.
    Trump doesn't generally go through the House and Senate now, why would he feel the need to later? He tweets, and his sycophants do things for him whether it's legal or not.

    Honestly, are Americans so disdainful of their own institutions that you think a voted-out President can set himself up as unelected dictator?
    Are you claiming that the American public is not, in fact, openly disdainful of the Legislature and the Supreme Court?

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Trump can say anything he wants after the election. But if he loses the electoral college vote, the only way he stays in office is with the connivance of the Secret Service, the Military, the Supreme Court and Congress. Which I think is pretty much impossible.
    I hope.

    At the end of the day, it comes down to the military.

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