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  1. Top | #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post

    It's not "whataboutism", it's pointing out rank hypocrisy in our society.
    When you point to some other incident that is different in scope and place, it is "whataboutism".

    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Except mocking a piece of shit robber is not "racist".
    Yeah, mocking a black victim of police misconduct (which is a fact) is not racist. And, calling Mr. Floyd, a "piece of shit robber" is an outrageous characterization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    It is a double standard that permeates out entire society, from coast to coast and all institutions.
    Maybe in your head. Again, different acts in different areas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec
    Referring to people as inanimate objects in inherently demeaning.
    Bullshit. People who are upstanding and forthright are referred to as "bricks" and that is not demeaning. I think you are over-reacting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec
    Traditionally refrigerators have been white in color. It would be like calling black people "pots" or something in reference to black cast iron pots.
    Now, I know you are over-reacting.

  2. Top | #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    No evidence they are "racist". Making fun of George Floyd is no evidence of racism.


    He wasn't lynched. At most, this was accidental killing by Chauvin as he didn't intend his death. But most probably it was death due to accidental fentanyl and methamphetamine overdose with stress position a minor contributing factor. His autopsy revealed high concentrations of these drugs and severe pulmonary edema. Liquid-filled alveoli obviously cannot participate in gas exchange.

    carried out by the police who took an oath to protect said black man.
    Accidents happen. Doesn't mean it was murder. Doesn't mean George Floyd should be elevated to the levels he is being elevated to.
    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.

  3. Top | #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    No evidence they are "racist". Making fun of George Floyd is no evidence of racism.


    He wasn't lynched. At most, this was accidental killing by Chauvin as he didn't intend his death. But most probably it was death due to accidental fentanyl and methamphetamine overdose with stress position a minor contributing factor. His autopsy revealed high concentrations of these drugs and severe pulmonary edema. Liquid-filled alveoli obviously cannot participate in gas exchange.

    carried out by the police who took an oath to protect said black man.
    Accidents happen. Doesn't mean it was murder. Doesn't mean George Floyd should be elevated to the levels he is being elevated to.
    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.
    It was an accident because it wasn't intended to asphyxiate. The intended action was illegal, combined with a death = voluntary manslaughter.

  4. Top | #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post

    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.
    It was an accident because it wasn't intended to asphyxiate. The intended action was illegal, combined with a death = voluntary manslaughter.
    "Wouldn'ta kilt him if I knew y'all would be so triggered..."

  5. Top | #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post

    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.
    It was an accident because it wasn't intended to asphyxiate. The intended action was illegal, combined with a death = voluntary manslaughter.
    How do you know what the intent of the officers was? How can you call it an accident when the police continued their lethal use of force after they knew Floyd wasn't breathing, instead of using CPR to revive him?

  6. Top | #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post

    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.
    It was an accident because it wasn't intended to asphyxiate. The intended action was illegal, combined with a death = voluntary manslaughter.
    No. The text of Minnesota murder in the second degree:

    Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

  7. Top | #547
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    Jacob Ward on Twitter: "There’s a new kind of ambulance in San Francisco. ..." / Twitter
    Dial 911 in certain neighborhoods, report a nonviolent mental-health crisis, and an experimental team of specialists arrive instead of the police.

    We spent the day watching this new team at work.

    A few details to note: the program, modeled on the Cahoots program in Oregon, is funded by Prop C, a business tax passed in 2018. So this is not “defunding the police.” But it is an experiment in changing their role.

    And consider that, as Chief William Scott told us, some police departments are eager for this sort of help. One study found that more than 20% of law-enforcement time is spent responding to and transporting people in a mental-health crisis.

    Also, we worked hard to sort out the most ethical way to portray this work without violating the privacy of the people we filmed. We asked their permission, but because they were in distress, decided to blur their faces. All feedback welcome.

    Thank you to @jmalt87, @casottile, and the @NBCNewsNow team for great teamwork on a complicated story.
    What is CAHOOTS? - White Bird Clinic
    The CAHOOTS model has been in the spotlight recently as our nation struggles to reimagine public safety. The program mobilizes two-person teams consisting of a medic (a nurse, paramedic, or EMT) and a crisis worker who has substantial training and experience in the mental health field. The CAHOOTS teams deal with a wide range of mental health-related crises, including conflict resolution, welfare checks, substance abuse, suicide threats, and more, relying on trauma-informed de-escalation and harm reduction techniques. CAHOOTS staff are not law enforcement officers and do not carry weapons; their training and experience are the tools they use to ensure a non-violent resolution of crisis situations. They also handle non-emergent medical issues, avoiding costly ambulance transport and emergency room treatment.
    Road Runners - Treatment Advocacy Center
    "In addition to serving as street-corner psychiatrists, law enforcement officers have become road runners, responding to mental health emergencies and traveling long distances to shuttle people with mental illness from one facility to another."

    "Members of law enforcement do not serve as treatment providers for any other illness. It is difficult to imagine subjecting someone having a heart attack to arrest, or someone with cancer being transferred to a specialty center in handcuffs, in the back of a police cruiser. But regardless of the fact that severe mental illnesses are brain diseases, we persist in treating their behavioral manifestations as criminal acts."

    Nice to see alternatives to policing.

  8. Top | #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post

    George Floyd's death was no accident. Death is an easily predicted outcome for most humans who are asphyxiated for nine minutes. More damning still, the asphyxiation was continued for about three minutes after the officers involved knew that George Floyd had stopped breathing. One of the officers participating in this event told the others that Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested that Floyd be turned on his side to allow him to breathe. The other officers ignored him, and continued what they were doing, instead of rendering first aid/CPR. Moreover, Mr Floyd was handcuffed and restrained, was not resisting arrest, and was in no position to harm anyone. Why did the police decide to pull him out of the car, throw him on the ground, and escalate the level of force to lethal levels? Why did they continue to maintain a lethal level of force after they knew Floyd had stopped breathing? And it also turns out that George Floyd and Chauvin were known to each other, and there was bad blood between them. This was murder, with premeditation. Your efforts to gloss over these details and call the outcome an accident is not going to work here.

    Nobody here has elevated George Floyd to any levels. He was just another victim of police brutality, albeit an event that was particularly horrific and indefensible, and transpired in broad daylight in front of many witnesses. The whole world saw Floyd's lynching and was horrified, and many came out to protest, which is an appropriate response. It is called empathy, and it is what most humans do. You, apparently, are unable to feel any empathy for black people, but that is on you. You appear to believe that it is appropriate for police to kill any black person with a criminal record, but again, that is on you. People who are not as prejudiced as you are see things differently.
    It was an accident because it wasn't intended to asphyxiate. The intended action was illegal, combined with a death = voluntary manslaughter.
    No. The text of Minnesota murder in the second degree:

    Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
    But was his original misconduct a misdemeanor or a felony?

  9. Top | #549
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    No ‘guilty’ verdicts in trial of St. Louis officers accused of beating undercover detective

    ST. LOUIS – A federal grand jury did not return a single guilty verdict Monday in the trial of three St. Louis Police officers accused of beating an undercover detective during a 2017 protest downtown.

    St. Louis Police officer Steven Korte was found not guilty on all counts. Former officer Chris Myers was found not guilty on a civil rights charge. The jury did not reach a verdict on a charge of destruction of evidence. The jury also did not reach a verdict on the civil rights charge against former officer Dustin Boone.

    Detective Luther Hall was working undercover with a partner during the 2017 Jason Stockley protests. They were documenting potential crimes when they got split up in the chaos on the night of Sunday, Sept. 17.
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

  10. Top | #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    And, calling Mr. Floyd, a "piece of shit robber" is an outrageous characterization.
    Floyd was objectively a piece of shit robber.

    Quote Originally Posted by MPR News
    Between 1997 and 2005, Floyd was arrested several times on drug and theft charges, spending months in jail.

    In 2007, Floyd was charged with aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. Investigators said Floyd and other men barged into an apartment, where he pushed a pistol into a woman’s abdomen. Floyd pleaded guilty and was sentenced to five years. When he was paroled in 2013 he was nearing 40.
    For George Floyd, a complicated life and a notorious death

    How would you characterize him? As a "gentle giant"?

    I think you are over-reacting.
    No, I am not. You on the other hand are unwilling to admit that anti-white racism exists.

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