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Thread: A God without compelling evidence?

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    I realised that fraud can also be used as evidence, including magic tricks.... (like some faith healers)

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    Of course, the path to a Christian God exists from a start of 'maybe god doesn't want to be seen' appears a bit convoluted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Of course, the path to a Christian God exists from a start of 'maybe god doesn't want to be seen' appears a bit convoluted.
    It's another unrecognized psycho-religious contradiction.

    There's a god that doesn't want to be seen but does things that make people think it wants to be seen, and the people think it wants to be seen and that it doesn't want to be seen and that the god is mysterious because it does things that make it want to be seen but not convincingly enough that people can be sure, and the OCD goes on and on and on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    I realised that fraud can also be used as evidence, including magic tricks.... (like some faith healers)
    Well any fraud, by definition, wouldn't be evidence. If God is both omniscient and omnipotent, then he knows exactly what each and every person who is living or ever will live would require as 100% confirmation of his existence that would rule out any type of fraud or trick completely and would be able to provide such an individual result to everybody at once. That means that if any evidence of him is ever presented and one single person anywhere is only 99.9999% convinced by this evidence, that's 100% proof that it's not actually evidence of God.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Of course, the path to a Christian God exists from a start of 'maybe god doesn't want to be seen' appears a bit convoluted.
    Well there are eastern ideas about us being God and playing hide and seek with ourselves... in a simulation that could involve a being having full control over the video game but due to boredom decides to allow surprises and then eventually remove knowledge of its true nature. Alan Watts talks a lot about that...

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    It's another unrecognized psycho-religious contradiction.

    There's a god that doesn't want to be seen but does things that make people think it wants to be seen, and the people think it wants to be seen and that it doesn't want to be seen and that the god is mysterious because it does things that make it want to be seen but not convincingly enough that people can be sure, and the OCD goes on and on and on.
    Yes I think the following quote from "God" in Futurama is relevant to the intelligent force I believe exists...

    "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

    Perhaps the creator of Futurama thought the quote was quite insightful because the quote appears twice in the episode - the second time near the end credits.

    Perhaps part of the reason is that many people enjoy mystery stories rather than always knowing everything....

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Alan Watts had his version of Hinduism; all things being the manifestation of Brahman, the eternal creative principle. Which doesn't translate as a simulated world because the world is made from the essence of Brahman and is in no way separate.

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Alan Watts had his version of Hinduism; all things being the manifestation of Brahman, the eternal creative principle. Which doesn't translate as a simulated world because the world is made from the essence of Brahman and is in no way separate.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXLgcfNuZw
    Actually many of his speeches are highly relevant to a simulation...
    e.g.


    I wonder what you would do
    if you had the power to dream at night
    any dream you wanted to dream
    and you would of course be able to alter
    your time sense
    and slip say 75 years of subjective time
    into eight hours of sleep
    you would i suppose start out by
    fulfilling all your wishes

    He goes on to explain how you would wish the dream to involve suffering and ignorance....

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    Veteran Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Well any fraud, by definition, wouldn't be evidence.
    I'm saying that skeptics are claiming it is fraud... it might in fact be an actual supernatural event...

    If God is both omniscient and omnipotent,
    I don't think that is necessarily true. I believe most of the Bible isn't historical or accurate. Well I guess in a simulation he could be.

    then he knows exactly what each and every person who is living or ever will live
    I think the intelligent force involves an AI... it would be able to calculate what you are talking about...

    would require as 100% confirmation of his existence that would rule out any type of fraud or trick completely and would be able to provide such an individual result to everybody at once. That means that if any evidence of him is ever presented and one single person anywhere is only 99.9999% convinced by this evidence, that's 100% proof that it's not actually evidence of God.
    Well I don't believe unbelievers are going to hell... perhaps my ideas are kind of "gnostic" and they apparently believe in a hidden supreme being. That way knowledge of "God" is more special...

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Alan Watts had his version of Hinduism; all things being the manifestation of Brahman, the eternal creative principle. Which doesn't translate as a simulated world because the world is made from the essence of Brahman and is in no way separate.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXLgcfNuZw
    Actually many of his speeches are highly relevant to a simulation...
    e.g.


    I wonder what you would do
    if you had the power to dream at night
    any dream you wanted to dream
    and you would of course be able to alter
    your time sense
    and slip say 75 years of subjective time
    into eight hours of sleep
    you would i suppose start out by
    fulfilling all your wishes

    He goes on to explain how you would wish the dream to involve suffering and ignorance....
    You interpret what he said in terms of a simulation, But there is nothing in his books that I have read to suggest he meant a technological simulation. The illusion he refers to is related to mind and self identity.

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