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Thread: Other Intelligent Species Prior to Man

  1. Top | #31
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Shit, if you went back in your DeLorean and collected some terrestrial dinosaurs from our own past, the herbivores would be very difficult to feed because modern plants are hugely different from those of the Mesozoic. Certainly no dinosaur ever tried to eat grass, and it seems highly implausible that they could have done so. Carnivores probably wouldn't have quite so much difficulty, though they might well find many modern animals unpalatable. They'd probably be OK with eating chicken.
    I doubt that it would be that horrible.

    Many Mesozoic plants would be at least half-familiar, plants like ferns, conifers, and cycads. Angiosperms started proliferating in the Cretaceous, and those would be even more familiar.

    Carnivores are often not very picky. Omnivores are even less picky. We are omnivores, and we eat stuff from all over the family tree of life.

  2. Top | #32
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    Here's a phylogeny. It's hard to do in one big list so I'll split it up. I've skipped over a lot of taxa.
    Mammalia:
    • Marsupialia - Macropodidae - kangaroo
    • Placentalia - Boreoeutheria
      • Euarchontoglires - guinea pig, rabbit, human
      • Laurasiatheria
        • Carnivora - dog, cat
        • Artiodactyla
          • Tylopoda - camel, llama, alpaca
          • Suina - pig
          • Ruminantia
            • Bovidae - (Bovinae) bovine, bison, water buffalo, (Caprinae) sheep, goat
            • Cervidae - deer
        • Perissodactyla - Equus - horse, donkey

    Tetrapoda:
    • Amphibia - Anura - frog
    • Amniota
      • Synapsida - Mammalia
      • Sauropsida
        • Testudines - Turtle
        • Lepidosauria - lizard, snake
        • Archosauria
          • Crocodilia - alligator
          • Dinosauria - Aves
            • Palaeognathae - ostrich
            • Neognathae - Galloanserae - (Galliformes) chicken, turkey, (Anseriformes) duck, goose


    Vertebrata:
    • Chondrichthyes - sharks
    • Osteichthyes
      • Actinopterygii - ray-finned bony fish
        • Chondrostei - sturgeon
        • Teleostei - (most fish)
      • Sarcopterygii - Tetrapoda

  3. Top | #33
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Metazoa (animals) - Bilateria:
    • Protostomia
      • Ecdysozoa - Arthropoda - Pancrustacea
        • Malacostraca - shrimp, lobster, crab
        • Hexapoda - grasshopper
      • Lophotrochozoa - Mollusca
        • Bivalvia - clam, oyster, scallop
        • Gastropoda - snail, abalone
        • Cephalopoda - squid, octopus
    • Deuterostomia
      • Chordata - Vertebrata
      • Echinodermata - sea urchin


    Opisthokonta:
    • Metazoa
    • Fungi
      • Ascomycota - yeast
      • Basidiomycota - mushrooms

  4. Top | #34
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    Magnoliophyta - angiosperms
    • magnoliids - nutmeg, bay laurel, cinnamon, avocado, black pepper
    • monocots
      • Asparagales - asparagus, garlic, onion, vanilla, saffron
      • Zingiberales - banana, ginger
      • Arecales - date palm
      • Dioscoreales - yam
      • Alismatales - taro
      • Poales - water chestnut, lemongrass, wheat, rye, oats, rice, American corn
    • eudicots
      • Proteales - macadamia
      • rosids
        • Saxifragales - currant
        • Vitales - grape
        • fabids
          • Fabales - Fabaceae - beans, lentil, pea, chickpea, peanut, soybean
          • Rosales - roses, apple, pear, plum, peach, apricot, quince, strawberry, almond, fig, breadfruit, cannabis
          • Cucurbitales - squash, pumpkin, zucchini, cucumber, melon, watermelon
          • Fagales - chestnut, hazelnut, pecan, walnut
          • Malpighiales - cassava
        • malvids
          • Sapindales - cashew, pistachio, mango, orange, lemon, lime, grapefruit
          • Brassicales - Brassicaceae - arugula, watercress, wasabi, radish, horseradish, turnip, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, Brussels sprouts
          • Malvales - durian
          • Myrtales - allspice
      • asterids
        • Caryophyllales - buckwheat, amaranth, quinoa, beet, spinach
        • Ericales - tea, cranberry, blueberry, kiwifruit, Brazil nut, wintergreen
        • campanulids
          • Asterales - sunflower, lettuce, dandelion
          • Apiales - dill, celery, carrot, parsley, cumin, coriander, parsnip
        • lamiids
          • Gentianales - coffee
          • Solanales - sweet potato, chili pepper, potato, tomato, eggplant, tobacco
          • Lamiales - olive, sesame, mint, basil, rosemary, thyme, oregano


    Tracheophytes - vascular plants
    • Polypodiophyta - fern (we eat its young leaves as fiddleheads)
    • Spermatophyta - seed plants
      • Pinophyta - pine (we eat its seeds as pine nuts)
      • Magnoliophyta

  5. Top | #35
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    Eukarya
    • Opisthokonta
      • Metazoa - animals
      • Fungi - yeast, mushrooms
    • Archaeplastida
      • Viridiplantae
        • Chlorophyta - sea lettuce
        • Streptophyta - Embryophyta (land plants) - Tracheophyta (vascular plants)
      • Rhodophyta - nori
    • SAR - Stramenopiles - Phaeophyceae (brown algae) - Laminariales (kelp) - Arame


    The only prokaryote that we eat in bulk is spirulina, prepared from cyanobacteria.

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    ...Carnivores probably wouldn't have quite so much difficulty, though they might well find many modern animals unpalatable. They'd probably be OK with eating chicken.
    ... Carnivores are often not very picky. Omnivores are even less picky. We are omnivores, and we eat stuff from all over the family tree of life.
    Mammals have been around since the Triassic, but we stayed small for most of our time on Earth. Then a convenient asteroid deleted the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, and then pretty much immediately mammals got big. This tells me that dinosaurs had about a hundred million years to practice eating us. They'd probably be okay with eating human.

  7. Top | #37
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    ... if they could survive in the modern atmosphere.

  8. Top | #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjay View Post
    ... if they could survive in the modern atmosphere.
    Geological history of oxygen - they easily could. Oxygen levels in the Mesozoic were the same or a little greater.

    Climate and CO2 in the Atmosphere - that would also not be a problem - atmospheric CO2 levels were about 2 to 10 times present levels in the Mesozoic.

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Back in the 80s or 90s the US launched a science missal that looked to Russians on a trajectory a polar shot would take. The international notifications had been made but it did not filter down to the Russian military.

    The Russian leader had a clock running and was close to a launch on warning when it got straightened out.

    There have been several other instances not th least of which was the Cuban Missile Crisis.
    The missing launch notification is almost certainly the incident I was describing.

    As for the Cuban Missile Crisis--scary but nobody thought they were under attack, it wasn't even close to the bad incidents.

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Back in the 80s or 90s the US launched a science missal that looked to Russians on a trajectory a polar shot would take. The international notifications had been made but it did not filter down to the Russian military.

    The Russian leader had a clock running and was close to a launch on warning when it got straightened out.

    There have been several other instances not th least of which was the Cuban Missile Crisis.
    The missing launch notification is almost certainly the incident I was describing.

    As for the Cuban Missile Crisis--scary but nobody thought they were under attack, it wasn't even close to the bad incidents.
    The Secratery Of Defense in the 90s in a docmenmtary he went to sleep not knowing if he woud wake up.

    Hawks on both sides were pushing the leaders to go for it. Kruschev was fgacing a potential coup.

    In the 80s I knew someone who had been a field tactical nuke officer in Europe. Something he witnessed. Warsaw Pack troops were massing and moving around without warning on maneuvers near a border alarming NATO. As tension escalated field tactical missiles were prepared. The other side also started to escalate.

    Curtis LeMay the founder of SAC on audio tape thought we should go for it and settle the Cold War during the Cuban crisis..

    The JFK tapes show him to have been an anchor of stability as things got tense.

    A little known fact. Truman considered a preemptive strike against China in The Korean War. The main problem was the stockpile. Using weapons on China would reduce the weapons and deterrence in Europe.

    We used nuclear weapons. It is when not if there will be a nuclear exchange. When things get really bad globally as population grows unchecked it is inevitable. It is in our DNA.

    We were preparing to attack Cuba. Troops were marshaling. It was discovered later Russians in Cuba would have launched.

    It as not scary, it was insanity. Human 'intelligence' for you.

    If evolution with completion among species including plants is a constant, then we know what may b out there. Predator and prey. The Star Trek saga covered some of the possibilities.

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