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Thread: Covid-19 miscellany

  1. Top | #2281
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353054
    Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

    It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

    TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.

    Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.

  2. Top | #2282
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353054
    Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

    It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

    TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.
    I am not out of date, just wrong. Actually I remember reading about claims that flue can hide in nerve cells too, in some people.
    So yeah, C19 could too potentially.
    Just saw this: I didn't mean to beat up on you. Yes, some viruses can live in certain cells in the body after recovery and re-emerge later to cause illness. So, if you ever had chickenpox, you should get the shingles vaccine!

  3. Top | #2283
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    Interesting video about gain of function by American Society for Microbiology (which Youtube marked as "From a medical journal. Learn how experts define health sources in a journal of the National Academy of Medicine")
    from March 5, 2019.

  4. Top | #2284
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    That's not how chickenpox re-emerges as shingles.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353054
    Your link is mostly correct; Whether Barbos is too, depends on what he means by 'embeds itself in the genome'. Varicella (VZV) latency is characterised by the presence of episomal plasmids in axons; These aren't a part of the nuclear genome, and are not incorporated into the chromosomes, but they are DNA (rather than RNA). I would certainly hesitate to characterise this as 'embedding itself in the genome'.

    It's now been determined that VZV latency is strictly Axonal, rather than being characteristic of satellite cells as implied by your link (and as was understood to be the case for a long time for sound clinical reasons, and which would have implied replication as part of routine mitosis - which would require closer involvement in the nuclear genome). PCR and laser-capture microdissection has definitively determined that the VZV episome in fact resides directly within ganglionic neurons during latency, rather than being incorporated into the DNA of nearby cells. (Eshleman, Shahzad and Cohrs, Future Virol. 2011 Mar; 6(3): 341–355)

    TL;DR you are right, and he is out of date.

    Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.
    Usually.

    No person or organisation is infallible, nor can you depend on their website being up to date, even if their staff are.

  5. Top | #2285
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post


    Yeah, my link was Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is right.
    Usually.

    No person or organisation is infallible, nor can you depend on their website being up to date, even if their staff are.
    My "Mayo Clinic is right" comment was not universal. I read what they wrote and posted it because generally, their information is stated in clear, easy to understand phrasing for people without medical or science backgrounds. Not everybody has a background in immunology or biochemistry. I know a lot of very smart people who are really well versed in their fields of expertise but haven't a clue when it comes to most things medical. There has been so much deliberate misinformation spread on the internets and conservative media that it really complicates the issues of education re: COVID19.

    That said, Mayo Clinic is relatively conservative which means that they are both utterly reliable and not necessarily 100% up to the second.

    I really didn't mean to be so dogged. I was up too late trying to wait out a storm so we could take the dogs around the block before bed....

  6. Top | #2286
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Nearly 85,000 cases today.
    Hooray! in Covid19 Olumpics US is well ahead of Russia again (per capita) Russia. Russia is still ahead in daily deaths.
    Russia's numbers are odd. The deaths are the highest they've been relative to daily cases. So either Delta is killing a bunch more people or Russia's daily case numbers are not accurate for whatever reason.

  7. Top | #2287
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

    Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.
    What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.

  8. Top | #2288
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

    Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.
    What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.
    Because ALL PEOPLE can spread it to everyone else. Unvaccinated have a higher probability of getting and passing it, but in areas of low vaccination rates, many people spreading it will be vaccinated. In areas of high vaccination rates, it will be spread less and the severity will be less when it is spread. Besides all this, the uncomfortable truth is that people who are vaccinated are going to be more likely to listen to CDC recommendations to mask up while people who are not vaccinated will be more likely to disregard rules, recommendations, and take advantage of not masking up when public places say it is optional. The fakers cannot take advantage of rules if everyone has to mask up indoors.

  9. Top | #2289
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

    Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.
    What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.
    The more the unvaccinated spread it, the more is copies itself, the more chance a mutation comes along that renders the vaccine null. Plus there are people that cannot get vaccinated and they are vulnerable. They shouldn't have to shut down their life because some petulant able bodied child refuses to get vaccinated or take basic safety measures because you "cain't tell them wut to do". I have a friend on immunosuppressant therapy. These people are trying to kill him.

    On top of that, if you live in a place where 60% of the population is voluntarily unvaccinated and there is a significant outbreak then there are substantial economic disruptions. A local Walmart recently closed. That didn't affect me. However, Half the vet techs at our hospital are out sick right now and one of their diabetic parents is probably going to die. Vet tech shortage hits the bottom line. Can't run as many rooms if you are short on techs. If they don't care about their health then neither do I but I care about my money.

  10. Top | #2290
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    The CDC is now recommending that even the vaccinated should start wearing masks again indoors. The delta strain is that pernicious.

    Frankly, I'm seeing more and more of the vaccinated are getting pissed off at the unvaccinated. For good reason, I'd say.
    What's the reason? I don't get it? The vaccinated will be fine even if they get sick.
    Vaccinated would need to wear a mask because assholes are making all the wrong choices (especially in the US where the vaccine has been available for months), so it is the dumbasses ruined it for everyone else school days thing. Vaccinated people around vaccinated people (to this point) seem to be harmless. Sadly, America decided to forego the easy path.

    To inhibit virus transmission you need to either vaccinate people or separate people via differing mechanisms, in this case, masks and short distances. And the unvaccinated aren't doing the mask thing... ie... the whole consequence of not being vaccinated.

    I think the most preposterous part of this were the Q-Anon cultists who want to protect the children... yet could give a fuck about protecting the children from this disease, because unlike the pizzeria and the basis of Q-Anon, Covid-19 is a lie.

    ETA: GDP was well shy of expected, in large part due to the assholes not getting vaccinated. So, not only are they fucking things up in general, their decisions are having a substantial effect on the American economy!

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