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Thread: The Apocalypse/Antichrist Argument

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    And unfortunately satan hasn't been following God's instructions for quite sometime after.

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    In related news, Darth Vader rebels against Obi-Wan Kenobi, which threatens to send the universe into a chaotic tailspin.

  3. Top | #13
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    Them there Christians keep telling me god is omnipotent, all powerful, so powerful that we cannot comprehend how powerful God is. So why is Satan still on earth causing trouble?
    You've seen Star Trek.
    The first half of most episodes involve technobabble explanations for why their super advanced technology, that solved an identical problem in a previous episode, is contra-indicated for this plot. Else the episode would be five minutes of plot. 50 minutes of the bridge crew watvhing the star-effect-screensaver.

    Half of every apology involves the theobabble reasons that the omnipotent god doesn't snap his fingers and solve everything.

    Suffering? Builds character.

    Rape? Free will.

    Satan's machinations? Ion storm.

    Abortion? Heisenberg uncertainty opto-isolator circuits are overheating.

    Bible says all true christain prayers are answered? Sometimes the answer is 'not yet.' But soon.

    Firefly cancelled? You guys support gay marriage.

  4. Top | #14
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    And unfortunately satan hasn't been following God's instructions for quite sometime after.
    No, the storyline, plot and cast underwent a shift in character...including the nature of God.

  5. Top | #15
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Superpowers are inevitably boring. An omnipotent character would be incredibly tedious to hear about - as soon as anything might upset or challenge their plans, they would simply fix that and move on.

    Superman needs kryptonite to be a story worth following. Which is OK for his fans, because his susceptibility to this particular attack is canon. But the Abrahamic god is canonically omnipotent. Rendering satan, or any other adversary, impotent, pointless, and tedious.

    Belief in an omnipotent entity inescapably implies that he has no opponents. The very existence of atheists is proof that no omnipotent gods exist that disapprove of atheism. The existence of suffering similarly proves that no gods exist that are both omnipotent and disapproving of suffering. And the claim that an omnipotent god exists who disapproves of satan (or of any other opponent, adversary, or enemy) is incoherent - no such adversary could exist contemporaneously with such a god.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Superpowers are inevitably boring. An omnipotent character would be incredibly tedious to hear about - as soon as anything might upset or challenge their plans, they would simply fix that and move on.

    Superman needs kryptonite to be a story worth following. Which is OK for his fans, because his susceptibility to this particular attack is canon. But the Abrahamic god is canonically omnipotent. Rendering satan, or any other adversary, impotent, pointless, and tedious.

    Belief in an omnipotent entity inescapably implies that he has no opponents. The very existence of atheists is proof that no omnipotent gods exist that disapprove of atheism. The existence of suffering similarly proves that no gods exist that are both omnipotent and disapproving of suffering. And the claim that an omnipotent god exists who disapproves of satan (or of any other opponent, adversary, or enemy) is incoherent - no such adversary could exist contemporaneously with such a god.
    It even has a literary trope: "Mary Sue".

    Now, whether the enemy is a "satan" or perhaps merely just the culmination of social darwinism's fight against social ethics, that's a thing yet to be seen, though generally informed by the provenance of reality, such that it is, which indicates the latter is a fair bit more terrifying.

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    Everyone does.
    ...eventually.

    Cooperate with the inevitable

  8. Top | #18
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    Everyone does.
    ...eventually.

    Cooperate with the inevitable
    It's a story, silly.

    The characters in fiction don't have to obey any logic - unless it's good fiction.

  9. Top | #19
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    Everyone does.
    ...eventually.

    Cooperate with the inevitable
    The point is that Satan was not depicted as being the Devil in revolt against God, but an agent of God doing the will of God.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    The book of Job has Satan taking instructions from God.
    Everyone does.
    ...eventually.

    Cooperate with the inevitable
    Saruman the White took instructions from Sauron. And see where that got him. Frodo and Samwise refused to take instructions from Sauron, and look where that got them. Surely there's something to be learned here?

    Hint: Might does not make right. Like Barad-dur, the evil empire of the Roman Church will collapse into ruin.
    .... eventually.

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