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Thread: Does the Bible forbid homosexuality and abortion?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post


    The ‘biblical view’ that’s younger than the Happy Meal




    A handful of powerful evangelicals decided in the 1970s that the fetus had a soul, and it became heresy to suggest otherwise.

    By the time of the 1988 elections, everyone in American evangelicalism was wholly opposed to legal abortion and everyone in American evangelicalism was pretending that this had always been the case.

    We have always been at war with Eastasia. Everyone knows that.
    Thanks for the link! I had a vague notion about that little coup, but not all of the details. Fascinating read.

    Though, the title is incorrect. It's only a new belief with respect to American Evangelicals, who are and were a minority in the global sense relative to Roman Catholics, who were always opposed to abortion and always believed they had a Biblical justification for the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    I didn't realize it was such rare slang. Why, what do old people call it when they're choking the chicken?
    There's no specific term, but it stands to reason it's like:
    F-f-fap...f-faaaap...f-f-f..."Oh, for pity's sake, look at that thing"....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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    Oddly enough, I was thinking about this issue last week and from my small amount of internet research, all I could find about the Bible and abortion is something in the book of Numbers. It says that if a man suspects that his wife's pregnancy is due to adultery, he can take his wife to a priest where she will be given something that will cause her to abort. And they wonder why so many enlightened women hate that awful book. But, I digress.

    When I worked in public health in the early 80s, none of my conservative Christian coworkers ever seemed to have anti abortion opinions. In fact, that was during the time when the government paid for abortions for low income women. We had a full time nurse who did counseling prior to the abortion to make sure that it was the woman's choice and she wasn't being forced to make this diecsion. After that, the abortion was arranged.

    During that time, I knew a few women who objected to abortion but didn't think that their personal beliefs should be forced on other women. I think right wing politicians believed they could use abortion as an issue to turn people against the Democratic Party. During this period of time, I remember a bumper sticker that was fairly popular among liberals. It read:

    Don't believe in abortion? Then don't have one.

    Catholics who I've known were personally against having one themselves, but again, most didn't think that their personal moral believes should be forced on others. Of course, these Catholics were Democrats. The Republican Party has done an excellent job of manipulating some conservative Christians into being one item voters. They have successfully made the fetus or a fertilized egg more important than living children.

    When the anti abortion movement became really nasty, people began picketing abortion clinics and making the women entering the clinics feel fearful. I had a coworker in Florida who chose to have an abortion and she told me about her denigrating experience as she entered the clinic. That was in the early 90s. Shortly after that, a doctor in Pensacola Florida who did abortions was murdered by some nut job conservative Christian.

    Since then, it's become even more extreme, as many states have passed laws making it very difficult for women to exercise their choice. Clinics shut down. Funding was lost etc. To me, most of it is sexist, just like much in Christianity is sexist. So, I do wonder if this is more about controlling women than it is about the love of a fetus or fertilized egg. The far right is mostly controlled by white men. They have been successful at convincing most conservative Christians that abortion is one of the worst evils.

    But, it's true that the Bible never forbids abortion, and if you do believe in a god that controls everything, than that god is the biggest abortionist of them all, since a rather high number of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, aka miscarriages. But then again, the majority of conservative Christians seem to think that god can get away with murder, while the rest of us aren't even entitled to control our reproductive organs. I don't understand their thinking but then they don't understand me either.

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    It only takes 7 chapters in God's holy word for him to kill every baby and fetus on earth, by drowning.
    Gen. 7:22: "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, and all that was in the dry land, died."
    Yard signs in my town, pre-election: CHRISTIANS, CONSIDER THE UNBORN WHEN YOU VOTE

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...all I could find about the Bible and abortion is something in the book of Numbers. It says that if a man suspects that his wife's pregnancy is due to adultery, he can take his wife to a priest where she will be given something that will cause her to abort. And they wonder why so many enlightened women hate that awful book.
    WUT?
    The priest doesn't abort any unborn baby.

    But, it's true that the Bible never forbids abortion....
    That's not true

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    The Numbers citation must be from chapter 5. One of the weirdest and most primitive passages in God's holy word. It's voodoo. The woman is suspected of adultery, so her husband has the priest give her a potion to drink of water and dirt from the floor of the temple. She drinks it. (Understand, this is to be done to women. There's no correlative for men. The husband can plow all the women from Beersheba to Tyre, and there's no prescribed remedy for the wife to follow.) Anyway, if she is innocent of adultery, the 'bitter water' cannot harm her. If she is guilty, her belly swells and her thigh rots (the Goods News Bible translates this as 'her genital organs will shrink.') But -- if this is the passage referred to -- it doesn't refer to pregnancy.

    II Timothy 3:16 says it just right: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
    And Numbers 5: 12-29 is my favorite Bible passage. If I ever teach Sunday school, I will teach it every Sunday. The children will leave the classroom with strange looks on their faces, and the first thing they'll ask their parents is "Da fuck??"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...all I could find about the Bible and abortion is something in the book of Numbers. It says that if a man suspects that his wife's pregnancy is due to adultery, he can take his wife to a priest where she will be given something that will cause her to abort. And they wonder why so many enlightened women hate that awful book.
    WUT?
    The priest doesn't abort any unborn baby.


    But, it's true that the Bible never forbids abortion....
    That's not true
    You are wrong. Please give us the verses in the Bible that forbid abortion, then go and read the verses in Numbers that talk about the priest giving the woman the thing that is supposed to cause a spontaneous abortion. Afterwards, you can explain to us what those verses really mean because it's pretty obvious to me what they mean. the Bible, especially the OT is full of disgusting sexist garbage, It's similar in some ways to the Koran, in that both of these so called holy books are very sexist. There is no way around that fact Lion. Oh, and the priest doesn't physically abort the fetus. He gives the woman some bitter mix that is supposed to cause an abortion. Maybe you need to do a better job of reading your. holy book. There's a lot of disgusting things in it.

    Now, if you are a cherry picking liberal Christian, that's one thing, but I've always gotten the impression from your posts that you take what the Bible says literally. If I'm wrong about that, feel free to correct my misperception of your beliefs.

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    So, after seeing this and then recently posting in the bible slavery thread and no, the bible does not forbid abortion. It encourages, In fact, abortion via murder of their mothers, and the slaughter of innocent children. "The bible" containsn god COMMANDING this. It's important to recognize that racism was much MUCH worse, to the point of denying an acceptance of the simple humanity of those outside your race, which was your culture, which was your religion.

    ARGUABLY it encourages abortion via "bitter drink".

    It has ambiguities though, too, especially concerning child sacrifice.

    These are facts.

    It's only a problem for people who are married to the whole thing instead of just liking one book of it simply as a book, not even accepting the historicity of the book itself.

    As to homosexuality, the book I like has some rather homosexual undertones, and I rather like that bit. The fan translations, and the rewrites, and then all that letter writing by the cults that sprang up?

    Well, I guess when books are that rare and parchment that expensive, you take what you can get for a book club. Even if it's just the one book!

    Best of all, that book didn't have anything to say about being gay. Most of the fan translations didn't either.

    Some later cult leaders injected some anti-gay jewish orthodoxy back in, and one of the fan translations was a little jewish orthodoxy friendly, but the original matter wasn't.

    The contextual religious historical documents people often tack onto both ends of it are just garbage though, rife with anti-gay sentiment. The sentiment never left the middle east with their "sin of lot" bullshit, and I have no doubt that's the intent of the original story being told, and of those who told it. It's like the libel of claims of homosexual violence and rape and untrustworthiness going back in the united states. Then the "man with man abomination" shit. No thank you.

    I'm going to take John's best advice and actually seek what the universe shows as correct through careful observations of its patterns and relationships driving said patterns, as the works of humans--who in this situation have failed to show their work--are too often and here especially rife with contradiction from the most seminal work: to love your neighbor as your self. Would you murder yourself for loving someone who you feel love for? LOLNO!

    We have more, better books. I really am partial to Candide.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Say what you will about men vs. men, but beyond any shadow of doubt, the Bible says nothing against lesbians.

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...all I could find about the Bible and abortion is something in the book of Numbers. It says that if a man suspects that his wife's pregnancy is due to adultery, he can take his wife to a priest where she will be given something that will cause her to abort. And they wonder why so many enlightened women hate that awful book.
    WUT?
    The priest doesn't abort any unborn baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    But, it's true that the Bible never forbids abortion....
    That's not true

    You are wrong
    No, I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Please give us the verses in the Bible that forbid abortion
    Exodus 20:13

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...then go and read the verses in Numbers that talk about the priest giving the woman the thing that is supposed to cause a spontaneous abortion.
    I've already read it. It doesn't say what you claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...it's pretty obvious to me what they mean.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    The Bible, especially the OT is full of disgusting sexist garbage,
    No it isn't disgusting, it isn't garbage and it isn't 'sexist'

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    ...It's similar in some ways to the Koran, in that both of these so called holy books are very sexist. There is no way around that fact Lion.
    An opinion isnt the same thing as a "fact". We might as well be arguing whether its a "fact" that vanilla icecream tastes nicer than strawberry icecream.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Oh, and the priest doesn't physically abort the fetus
    That's what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    He gives the woman some bitter mix that is supposed to cause an abortion.
    That's NOT what the text states.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Maybe you need to do a better job of reading your holy book.
    Amen. Thats always going to be the case.
    https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-16.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    There's a lot of disgusting things in it.
    Your repetitious opinion is noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Now, if you are a cherry picking liberal Christian, that's one thing, but I've always gotten the impression from your posts that you take what the Bible says literally.
    Literally AND figuratively true in every respect.
    A lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post

    If I'm wrong about that, feel free to correct my misperception of your beliefs.
    You're wrong. They aren't beliefs.

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