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Thread: Why did Jehovah create Satan?

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Why did Jehovah create Satan?

    This question has always seemed like a massive plot-hole to me. I find it interesting to discuss because it is such a massive plot-hole.

    Did Jehovah not know what was in the heart of this creature? Does the story support that gap? Does god need this plot device so he adds it but refuses to take responsibility? Is Satan actually an equal god, but the book downplays his origin because that scares the shit out of them?

    What’s the deal? Who created Satan, Why, and what did they know and when did they know it?

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    Formerly Joedad
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    I suppose it all depends on whether god created satan or satan created god, and which is which anyway. They're not at all different except in one's assumptions. They're likely the same thing, religiously speaking.

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    In my church, The Temple of Unredeemed Dispensation, we believe that Satan created Jehovah. There is a clear exegesis, in many scriptures, to uphold our beliefs. Who, after all, was the sexiest character in Eden? The snake, with street smarts, who knew the score. He was sexiest. That is a clear indication -- a Satan marker, as we call it -- that Our Dark Father was unconsciously writing Himself into the text with charisma and fatal charm.
    Incidentally, the Temple accepts gifts of cash, land, precious metals, specie, and stock.
    The very fact that Jehovah's behavior throughout scripture is by turns petulant, immature, violent, racist, over-reacting to the point of psychosis -- this is the most obvious Satan marker. Dark Father was unable to convincingly portray a god of love.
    Temple also accepts bequests in wills -- request an informational packet.
    Accepted scriptures in the Temple include The Holy Bible and the works of Aleister Crowley and Madame Blavatsky. I Myself am the divine and dominie.
    Incidentally, we worship neither Satan or Jehovah, because we believe neither one tells the truth, and both act like dicks. Our social views are modeled on Ayn Rand and Rand Paul and Paul Manafort. We actually do not possess supernatural beliefs, because the core of our orthodoxy is that man invented a character (Satan) who, as an untrustworthy narrator, compiled a Bible record of another character (Jehovah or Joe Dat, as we refer to him in services.)
    We are very social. However, the rugrats are confined to a separate wing of temple and given supplemental lessons in straight, secular academic disciplines, so that they do not waste their time on the speculative subjects to which we adults are addicted.
    We accept bank drafts and personal checks.
    At midnight, when I feel like it, I invite the most dedicated senior members of the organization to an Exalted Conclave, at which each member is free to express views, criticize the views of others, or sing. At these conclaves, I am often asked to walk the aisles of the temple, swinging a massive censer back and forth. Only it is my balls.
    We accept some foreign currency.

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Satan as the Devil in opposition to God appears to be a Christian invention. Judaism has no such entity, at least not until the second temple period. The book of Enoch has a revolt in Heaven and a leader, but it differs from Satan in Christianity. Job has satan playing the devils advocate but is at all times subservient to God, the pair of them placing a friendly wager on the fidelity of Job.

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    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    The problem is not why is there a Satan, but why a moral, merciful, compassionate just God would allow Satan and his devils and cute lil imps to run around Earth free to cause evil, and temptation? Why not banish the lot and save a lot of problems? Does God love Satan, devils and cut little imps more than humans? Or is God laying down on the job again?

    And the good angels, do they keep petitioning God to do something about the devil problem, or do they just sing hymns of praise to God all day long?

    If you were a good angel in heaven, what would you do about all of this? Does God forbid them to take strong action?

    From making an impressive and theatrical showing on Earth to command in the name of God and end to war, no more Jihadis, evil dictatorships, racism, and misogyny? Theology makes my head hurt.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    It's often said that the best way that satan succeeds is to have people think he doen't exist etc., mainly staying out of the focus in conversations while people discuss, critique and condemn God. Now we have this thread - who's up for critiquing satan?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    I assume you mean by "the book" the Hebrew and Christian Bibles? The name means "the adversary" or "the accuser"; such implies that his purpose in the court of YHWH is like that of a prosecuting attourney, one whose desire is to convict humanity of our misdeeds and weaknesses and lead us away to punishment. The New Testament built on this mythos by positing a "redeemer" as well, who defends us against his accusations.

    If you mean "in the history of Christianity", Satan has worn a lot of different hats over the centuries, more than can easily be summarized. I think more modern Christians get their impression of the character more so from Milton's Paradise Lost and subsequent media portrayals than from any sort of traditional theology, in any case, so that would really be "the book" to study. In Milton, he is initially presented in a surprisingly sympathetic light but ultimately revealed to be more malicious than he admits; it does not speculate on his origins, only his fall from grace.

    He became something of a stereotyped villain/fool in Western culture, likely the product of the street performance morality plays that were a major form of entertainment through out Europe's pre-Reformation years. An archetype in goat's horns immediately recognized and somewhat fearfully mocked.

    The Gnostic versions of Christianity see Satan as something of a lesser threat than our most serious foe, the divine demiurge who deceives humanity with the distractions of the material... though some seem to have identified Satan as the demiurge. Either way, like all evil, Satan was not so much intentionally as accidentally created by the fracturing of the mind of God into many Emanations (much like in Plato's cosmology)

    Satanists, of course, have their own many and various perspectives on the principal object of their pedagogy. I liked a version told to me by a theistic Satanist a few years back, a story in which God intended to create Satan as the greatest of his creations, and more or less became jealous of his own work when it turned out he succeeded in creating an offspring more wise and beautiful than himself. Despising his own work, he deceived humanity into rejecting him.

    Of course, for atheistic Satanists, Satan is only a key metaphor, standing forbidden wisdom itself, the gateway to true Gnosis and transformation of humanity above and beyond any mythology.

    I always liked Tolkien's metaphorical version in Melkor, whose "voice" was always meant to rejoin the "song of creation" in the end, despite the grimness of its role as counterpoint.

    In the Muslim version, Iblis/Satan isn't so much an evil god as he was a fellow-creature like us, who became jealous of God's favor and treated us ill as a result; he isn't necessarily all-bad or unforgiveable, just an ancient enemy of our species who used his gift of free will to oppose God as do we all. Iblis is sometimes called "the ploughman" because he drives us toward the fates and decisions our heart has already chosen, either for or away from God. God actually gives him permission to tempt us just as the Jewish version does in the Job narrative, as He does not desire blind faith to begin with but rather a free choice to serve. Having Iblis around doesn't really change anything; both he and God are testing human hearts, albeit for different reasons. Iblis is only another challenge, another crucible to overcome.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    This question has always seemed like a massive plot-hole to me. I find it interesting to discuss because it is such a massive plot-hole.
    Some plot holes don't have explanations. For example: Who is John Connor's father in the original timeline before John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to become John Connor's father?

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    If you don't take your mythology too seriously, I suppose you could make a case that Satan and God are symbols of the battle between good and evil. But, the problem with that is the Biblical god often appears to be the evil one, or at least more evil than Satan who seemed to be trying to form a coup along with some of his fellow angels. I just have a very difficult time understanding how any intelligent person can take any of this stuff literally, despite knowing some intelligent people who do. Maybe my church friends were right when they told me not to think too much, when I first lost the beliefs I was taught to accept as a child.

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    Ingersoll wrote somewhere that, if Satan had inspired the entire Biblical text, would you expect the events to be much different?

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