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Thread: So, the UK has officially shot itself in the foot...

  1. Top | #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    This was depressingly predictable:

    Brexit protesters in Northern Ireland set cars alight, attack police

    Cars have been set alight, 20 police officers have been injured and masked people have pelted a police van with petrol bombs in further disorder in pro-British parts of Northern Ireland amid rising post-Brexit tensions in the region.
    And of course the DUP is involved:

    Other political parties blamed the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) of Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster on Saturday for stoking up tensions with their staunch opposition to the new trading arrangements.

    "By their words and actions they have sent a very dangerous message to young people in loyalist areas," Gerry Kelly, a lawmaker from the pro-Irish Sinn Fein party, which shares power in the devolved government with the DUP, said in a statement.
    I've got the sense that Boris isn't up to the task of handling Brexit properly. If the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP decides to protest against Brexit as well, this could turn into one motherfucker of a fucking shitshow.
    Sturgeon has already protested against Brexit. I hope the UK allows another referendum to the Scottish people for Scotland to leave the UK, even though Sturgeon could not convince the Scottish people to vote 'leave' in the 2014 referendum and that was supposed to have settled the question for some time. The UK needs Scotland approximately as much as a stranger needs a whingeing, kvetching toddler to babysit. And then Scotland is free to enter the EU on her own terms.

  2. Top | #42
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    This was depressingly predictable:

    Brexit protesters in Northern Ireland set cars alight, attack police

    Cars have been set alight, 20 police officers have been injured and masked people have pelted a police van with petrol bombs in further disorder in pro-British parts of Northern Ireland amid rising post-Brexit tensions in the region.
    And of course the DUP is involved:

    Other political parties blamed the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) of Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster on Saturday for stoking up tensions with their staunch opposition to the new trading arrangements.

    "By their words and actions they have sent a very dangerous message to young people in loyalist areas," Gerry Kelly, a lawmaker from the pro-Irish Sinn Fein party, which shares power in the devolved government with the DUP, said in a statement.
    I've got the sense that Boris isn't up to the task of handling Brexit properly. If the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP decides to protest against Brexit as well, this could turn into one motherfucker of a fucking shitshow.
    Brexit isn't amenable to being handled properly by anyone. It's a disaster, and with the best possible leadership it would have been averted. Any leadership sufficiently incompetent as to allow it it happen is, by definition, unable to make it a success, or even to mitigate the worst impacts of its inevitable failure.

    However, of the 67,610,000 people living in the United Kingdom, Boris Johnson is probably a worse choice to have in charge right now than the other 67,609,999.

    OK, that's hyperbole; Many of the others are children, senile, or Conservative party members, so there are likely fewer than forty million or so better qualified people to run the country right now.

  3. Top | #43
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    This was depressingly predictable:

    Brexit protesters in Northern Ireland set cars alight, attack police



    And of course the DUP is involved:



    I've got the sense that Boris isn't up to the task of handling Brexit properly. If the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP decides to protest against Brexit as well, this could turn into one motherfucker of a fucking shitshow.
    Sturgeon has already protested against Brexit. I hope the UK allows another referendum to the Scottish people for Scotland to leave the UK, even though Sturgeon could not convince the Scottish people to vote 'leave' in the 2014 referendum and that was supposed to have settled the question for some time. The UK needs Scotland approximately as much as a stranger needs a whingeing, kvetching toddler to babysit. And then Scotland is free to enter the EU on her own terms.
    In 2014, it was made very clear to Scottish voters that a vote for continued union with England would imply continued EU membership.

    One of the arguments made against independence in 2014 was that an independent Scotland would potentially lose her membership of the EU, and have to re-apply.

    It's very obvious that the 2016 plebiscite and the subsequent withdrawal of the UK from the EU renders the 2014 vote obsolete as an expression of the current will of the Scottish people.

  4. Top | #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    This was depressingly predictable:

    Brexit protesters in Northern Ireland set cars alight, attack police



    And of course the DUP is involved:



    I've got the sense that Boris isn't up to the task of handling Brexit properly. If the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP decides to protest against Brexit as well, this could turn into one motherfucker of a fucking shitshow.
    Sturgeon has already protested against Brexit. I hope the UK allows another referendum to the Scottish people for Scotland to leave the UK, even though Sturgeon could not convince the Scottish people to vote 'leave' in the 2014 referendum and that was supposed to have settled the question for some time. The UK needs Scotland approximately as much as a stranger needs a whingeing, kvetching toddler to babysit. And then Scotland is free to enter the EU on her own terms.
    In 2014, it was made very clear to Scottish voters that a vote for continued union with England would imply continued EU membership.

    One of the arguments made against independence in 2014 was that an independent Scotland would potentially lose her membership of the EU, and have to re-apply.

    It's very obvious that the 2016 plebiscite and the subsequent withdrawal of the UK from the EU renders the 2014 vote obsolete as an expression of the current will of the Scottish people.
    No problem. I want Scotland to determine her future as part of the UK or not.

  5. Top | #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    This was depressingly predictable:

    Brexit protesters in Northern Ireland set cars alight, attack police



    And of course the DUP is involved:



    I've got the sense that Boris isn't up to the task of handling Brexit properly. If the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP decides to protest against Brexit as well, this could turn into one motherfucker of a fucking shitshow.
    Sturgeon has already protested against Brexit. I hope the UK allows another referendum to the Scottish people for Scotland to leave the UK, even though Sturgeon could not convince the Scottish people to vote 'leave' in the 2014 referendum and that was supposed to have settled the question for some time. The UK needs Scotland approximately as much as a stranger needs a whingeing, kvetching toddler to babysit. And then Scotland is free to enter the EU on her own terms.
    In 2014, it was made very clear to Scottish voters that a vote for continued union with England would imply continued EU membership.

    One of the arguments made against independence in 2014 was that an independent Scotland would potentially lose her membership of the EU, and have to re-apply.

    It's very obvious that the 2016 plebiscite and the subsequent withdrawal of the UK from the EU renders the 2014 vote obsolete as an expression of the current will of the Scottish people.
    This is supported by the overwhelming amount of Remain votes in Scotland. Over half again as many as Leave. When I was a kid, the dissolution of either Great Britain or the UK was pretty laughable. So I guess Boris Johnson will certainly leave his mark in history. Mission Accomplished, I suppose.

  6. Top | #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    In 2014, it was made very clear to Scottish voters that a vote for continued union with England would imply continued EU membership.

    One of the arguments made against independence in 2014 was that an independent Scotland would potentially lose her membership of the EU, and have to re-apply.

    It's very obvious that the 2016 plebiscite and the subsequent withdrawal of the UK from the EU renders the 2014 vote obsolete as an expression of the current will of the Scottish people.
    This is supported by the overwhelming amount of Remain votes in Scotland. Over half again as many as Leave. When I was a kid, the dissolution of either Great Britain or the UK was pretty laughable. So I guess Boris Johnson will certainly leave his mark in history. Mission Accomplished, I suppose.
    Why so upset? Boris managed what Nicola couldn't. Since she appears to hate the English she should be over the moon that Brexit might hasten Scotland's exit from the UK.

  7. Top | #47
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    I think it's a bit too late for the Northern Ireland loyalists to start protesting brexit. The terms of the deal have been known for quite some time, and the DUP was even part of Johnson's government for a while. Suck it up, and move to England if you don't like it.

  8. Top | #48
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    So, perhaps Northern Ireland and Scotland should both leave the UK, form their own United Duchy, and rejoin Europe. Goods bound from Ireland to England could go via a northern route.

    This leaves the Anglo-Scottish border with a need for EU customs control and therefore problematic. But this was dealt with in medieval times with the "Debatable Lands" controlled by the Armstrong Clan. Perhaps the Armstrongs could be brought back into power; this would allow Scotland to shrug its shoulders and claim no control over the lawlessness to its South.


    I'm isolated here: I know of only four Americans who live within an hour's drive. But there's a Brit nearby I speak with often. He thinks Brexit has been a big boon to the UK; they're prospering now, while EU suffers and regrets not being nicer to UK. The French are stealing mussels from UK territorial waters but the Royal Navy may put a stop to that.

  9. Top | #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    In 2014, it was made very clear to Scottish voters that a vote for continued union with England would imply continued EU membership.

    One of the arguments made against independence in 2014 was that an independent Scotland would potentially lose her membership of the EU, and have to re-apply.

    It's very obvious that the 2016 plebiscite and the subsequent withdrawal of the UK from the EU renders the 2014 vote obsolete as an expression of the current will of the Scottish people.
    This is supported by the overwhelming amount of Remain votes in Scotland. Over half again as many as Leave. When I was a kid, the dissolution of either Great Britain or the UK was pretty laughable. So I guess Boris Johnson will certainly leave his mark in history. Mission Accomplished, I suppose.
    Why so upset? Boris managed what Nicola couldn't. Since she appears to hate the English she should be over the moon that Brexit might hasten Scotland's exit from the UK.
    Replace "upset" with "concerned" and you would have hit the nail on the head. If Scotland became independent then both Scotland and the UK would become one party states at least for a while. That is not a good idea, ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjay View Post
    I think it's a bit too late for the Northern Ireland loyalists to start protesting brexit. The terms of the deal have been known for quite some time, and the DUP was even part of Johnson's government for a while. Suck it up, and move to England if you don't like it.
    "Not practical" rarely enters the mind of a protestor. Sometimes that is justified, sometimes not. But if protesting has already come into play, I'm not comfortable saying a sit down and discussion would quiet things down. In the minds of some people involved, trust has been broken. Considering this is a region used to soldiers and martial law, I couldn't say what the outcome will be nor would I presume. I'm all for stopping a bad situation becoming worse, when it comes to Northern Ireland; I wouldn't know where to fucking begin.

  10. Top | #50
    the baby-eater
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    The Scots may want to remain in the EU, but leaving the UK for the EU may be even more damaging than Brexit:

    Independence could cost Scotland's economy £11bn a year, forecast suggests
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ecast-suggests

    Seems there's at least a couple of factors that would make Scottish independence undesirable right now:
    - Scotland would lose more trade by leaving the UK than it would gain by rejoining the EU.
    - The UK currently spends more on Scotland than it receives in revenue, so the Scottish government will have less money to spend.

    It would take decades of adjustment - developing new industries and trade relationships - before Scotland would see any net benefit from leaving the UK for the EU, and even then there's no guarantee. They're probably better off staying in the union.

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