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Thread: Usage of terms male/female when describing animals

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Usage of terms male/female when describing animals

    In the hobby forum there is a thread about infection passing to birds via feeders

    https://talkfreethought.org/showthre...-finches/page2

    In that thread I asked about what was called a house finch esp. for a picture.
    One was kindly supplied. I asked whether the red was was the male or female.

    This got me thinking about the terms male/female.
    With the rise of 'inclusive' language we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.

    Does that now apply to our descriptions in the animal kingdom?
    Are we now reduced to terms such as egg layer/non-egg layer? Much more of a mouthful.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    the baby-eater
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    It seems to me that you've never given any thought as to the reasons why it's considered more inclusive to avoid using gendered language, or to avoid assuming which parents a child has in their life.

    And I reject your premise:
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.
    No-one is telling me that.

    I would have to go out of my way to trawl the internet for some obscure opinion piece to find such a prescription. May I suggest you find something better to do with your time.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    And I reject your premise:
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.
    No-one is telling me that.
    Nor I.

    PC was not developed so that no one would ever be offended ever again. It was created to avoid accidental offense.
    Or, as it turns out, banality.
    The kids i know with two fathers aren't offended by the casual assumptions, they just have to work thru stupid assumptions every damned conversation.
    Thanknyou, but i cannot give this to my mother.
    No, she's not in Heaven, or a coma, or an ashram.
    No, it's not one of "those" divorces.
    ...until they can get a word in edgewise.
    IFF they want to. One little snot just makes them keep guessing.


    So, really, you can say, 'mother/father' if you want. Just might have some 9 year old looking at you with pity.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    It seems to me that you've never given any thought as to the reasons why it's considered more inclusive to avoid using gendered language, or to avoid assuming which parents a child has in their life.

    And I reject your premise:
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.
    No-one is telling me that.

    I would have to go out of my way to trawl the internet for some obscure opinion piece to find such a prescription. May I suggest you find something better to do with your time.
    The latest Victorian Public Service Inclusive Language Guide is your friend. https://www.vic.gov.au/inclusive-language-guide
    Coming soon to a public service near you.

    At the moment it is only recommendations but will time with become more insistent.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Contributor repoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    It seems to me that you've never given any thought as to the reasons why it's considered more inclusive to avoid using gendered language, or to avoid assuming which parents a child has in their life.

    And I reject your premise:
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.
    No-one is telling me that.

    I would have to go out of my way to trawl the internet for some obscure opinion piece to find such a prescription. May I suggest you find something better to do with your time.
    The latest Victorian Public Service Inclusive Language Guide is your friend. https://www.vic.gov.au/inclusive-language-guide
    Coming soon to a public service near you.

    At the moment it is only recommendations but will time with become more insistent.
    Mel Gibson warned about China - who with the help of local politicians getting over on Australia. China which is brutal to all LGBT people.


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    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    It seems to me that you've never given any thought as to the reasons why it's considered more inclusive to avoid using gendered language, or to avoid assuming which parents a child has in their life.

    And I reject your premise:
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc.
    No-one is telling me that.

    I would have to go out of my way to trawl the internet for some obscure opinion piece to find such a prescription. May I suggest you find something better to do with your time.
    The latest Victorian Public Service Inclusive Language Guide is your friend. https://www.vic.gov.au/inclusive-language-guide
    Coming soon to a public service near you.

    At the moment it is only recommendations but will time with become more insistent.
    Thank you. Maybe now you should actually read it.

    Here's what Tigers! thinks it says:

    we are told that we should not use...mother/father
    Here's what the guide says about mother/father:

    Don’t assume that everyone is heterosexual (straight), or that this is the norm. Avoid using language such as ‘wife’ or ‘husband’ that assumes all relationships are heterosexual, as this excludes non-heterosexual people and devalues their relationships. Words and phrases such as ‘partner’, ‘parents’, ‘relationship’, ‘in a relationship’ are examples of LGBTIQ inclusive language.
    If you're talking to a child about their parents, but you don't actually know what their home situation is, then there's a good chance you're making a mistake by assuming they have a mother or father at home. Some children's parents are simply divorced and the father or mother isn't in the picture. Some children have a deceased parent. Some children have two fathers, or two mothers. Some live with a guardian who isn't their parent at all. In some branches of the public service, workers encounter children from all kinds of backgrounds.

    On the other hand, if you're talking to a child about their parents and you know that they live with their mother and father, then there's no reason why you can't refer to them as such. No-one is telling you that you shouldn't.

    Here's what Tigers! thinks it says:

    we are told that we should not use...male/female
    Here's what the guide says about male/female:

    Gender, sex and sexuality are all separate concepts.

    Gender is part of how you understand who you are and how you interact with other people. Many people understand their gender as being female or male. Some people understand their gender as a combination of these or neither. Gender can be expressed in different ways, such as through behaviour or physical appearance.

    Sex refers to a person’s biological sex characteristics. This has historically been understood as either female or male. However, we now know that some people are born with natural variations to sex characteristics.
    That is, there's no prescription whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    At the moment it is only recommendations but will time with become more insistent.
    It's like the War on Christmas, but all year 'round!

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    we are told that we should not use terms such as male/female, mother/father etc..
    I'm old enough to remember agreeing that 'No one is telling me that.' I have read your offered justification for the claim
    I can't see where it uses the words 'mother' or 'father' at all.
    Male and female are sprinkled thru the document.
    They even suggest using language like:
    [_] Man
    [_] Woman
    [_] Other __________.

    So, i'm gonna have to dust off "no one is telling me that."

    Have you read it? It's not what you think it is.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Wow. So Nuts, bolts, screws, dykes, drivers, hammers, plugs, receptacles, etc are all animals.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Nobody is oppressing you or anyone else by their use of, nor recommendations for, gender neutral language.

    Happy holidays!

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    F U very much.*

    * irresistible urge?

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