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Thread: Solid State Batteries Coming Soon

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    ...
    However, pure electrics have gotten good enough I now think the best option would be to make an optional small trailer with the fuel, engine and generator. City driving, leave it home. Long road trips, hitch it up.
    That's what I've been thinking. Either buy a generator on a trailer if you make frequent long trips or go to Hertz and they'll rent you one.
    I didn't even think of the rental approach--good catch.
    On the other hand people in places that experience weather related power outages (like here in the New England) might find it handy to keep one in the garage. And they'd have to be quieter and more neighbor-friendly to be allowed on public highways. Win-win. I believe Ted Cruz might even be talked into collaborating on a bill with AOC to have the government subsidize them!

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    ...
    However, pure electrics have gotten good enough I now think the best option would be to make an optional small trailer with the fuel, engine and generator. City driving, leave it home. Long road trips, hitch it up.
    That's what I've been thinking. Either buy a generator on a trailer if you make frequent long trips or go to Hertz and they'll rent you one.
    I didn't even think of the rental approach--good catch.
    You can buy smallish generators that you can pick up with one arm and fit in the corner of your trunk. https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    I didn't even think of the rental approach--good catch.
    You can buy smallish generators that you can pick up with one arm and fit in the corner of your trunk. https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators
    Those smallish generators are generally between 1,000 to 3,000 watt output, intended for camping or home emergency for lights and small appliances. An auto would need a good deal more power, I would think a 20,000 watt generator pretty much as a minimum, but 30,000 watt more practical, and 40,000 or more if you don't want to leave it running to recharge batteries during rest stops.

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    I didn't even think of the rental approach--good catch.
    You can buy smallish generators that you can pick up with one arm and fit in the corner of your trunk. https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators
    Those smallish generators are generally between 1,000 to 3,000 watt output, intended for camping or home emergency for lights and small appliances. An auto would need a good deal more power, I would think a 20,000 watt generator pretty much as a minimum, but 30,000 watt more practical, and 40,000 or more if you don't want to leave it running to recharge batteries during rest stops.
    That Honda link lists their 3000W generator having a 196cc = .196L engine. The Prius hybrid has a 1.2L engine. Scaling up means 3000W * 1.2/.196 = 18,367W. As close as I can figure.

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Those smallish generators are generally between 1,000 to 3,000 watt output, intended for camping or home emergency for lights and small appliances. An auto would need a good deal more power, I would think a 20,000 watt generator pretty much as a minimum, but 30,000 watt more practical, and 40,000 or more if you don't want to leave it running to recharge batteries during rest stops.
    That Honda link lists their 3000W generator having a 196cc = .196L engine. The Prius hybrid has a 1.2L engine. Scaling up means 3000W * 1.2/.196 = 18,367W. As close as I can figure.
    Yeah, your 18,367W is close to my rough guestement of 20,000W. 20,000W is equal to about 27HP which I would assume would be about a minimum of the average HP used for a cross country trip. More HP would be needed for uphill grades and less for downhill grades and needed HP would depend on speed (air resistance) too but would be averaged out by battery storage. A heavier car, hauling more weight would need more.

    I don't know what Honda was referring to. The 3,000W is equal to ~4HP. Power out can not exceed power in and it is difficult to imagine getting anywhere in a car with only 4HP.

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post

    I didn't even think of the rental approach--good catch.
    You can buy smallish generators that you can pick up with one arm and fit in the corner of your trunk. https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators
    Those smallish generators are generally between 1,000 to 3,000 watt output, intended for camping or home emergency for lights and small appliances. An auto would need a good deal more power, I would think a 20,000 watt generator pretty much as a minimum, but 30,000 watt more practical, and 40,000 or more if you don't want to leave it running to recharge batteries during rest stops.
    Electric vehicles can be charged at power draws comparable to various household appliances. Most electric vehicles charging at home on a 240-volt level 2 charger will draw about 7,200 watts or less. For comparison, a typical electric furnace draws about 10,000 watts and a water heater uses 4,500 watts.
    https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...2C500%20watts.

    So 20,000 would be way overkill. Not to mention that charging on the road would only be intended to get you to the next real charging station.
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

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    I'll be curious to see how small this tech can go. Will SS replace the current crop even at the scale of D, C, AA etc. household batteries? I would love some smaller, lighter batteries for some of my applications, but not necessarily if they don't have at least the equivalent number of charge cycles.

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Those smallish generators are generally between 1,000 to 3,000 watt output, intended for camping or home emergency for lights and small appliances. An auto would need a good deal more power, I would think a 20,000 watt generator pretty much as a minimum, but 30,000 watt more practical, and 40,000 or more if you don't want to leave it running to recharge batteries during rest stops.
    Electric vehicles can be charged at power draws comparable to various household appliances. Most electric vehicles charging at home on a 240-volt level 2 charger will draw about 7,200 watts or less. For comparison, a typical electric furnace draws about 10,000 watts and a water heater uses 4,500 watts.
    https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...2C500%20watts.

    So 20,000 would be way overkill. Not to mention that charging on the road would only be intended to get you to the next real charging station.
    It depends on how long someone is willing to wait to recharge. With a hybrid, the charging is done while driving. With an electric, charging requires stopping and waiting while charging.

    Charging time will depend on how low in power the batteries are and the output of the generator. Assume that you drive five hours using an average of 27HP then you will have depleted 100,000 Watt-hours from your battery. If you use a 3,000W generator to recharge then you will have to wait 33 hours for the recharge before driving on for another five hours, then another 33 hour charge... etc. (Using a 1,000W generator will take 100 hours or four days to recharge). With a 20,000W generator this would change from 5 hours drive and 33 hours recharge to 5 hours drive and 5 hours recharge. A 40,000W generator would reduce the charge time to 2.5 hours after the 5 hours of driving.

    Personally, I enjoy road trips and charging stations will be fairly rare along back roads away from the interstate highway for a while yet so, for me, a hybrid that charges while driving makes a hell of a lot more sense than an electric car.

    ETA:
    What does the power draw of household furnaces and water heaters have to do with operating and charging an electric car?

    +ETA:
    Electric cars are good for local driving. Drive for a half to one hour during the day then plug it in to recharge overnight for twelve hours.
    Last edited by skepticalbip; 03-01-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  9. Top | #19
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    One problem with 100% EV is how to heat the cabin in cold weather. I'm thinking that would be a huge drain on the batteries. It wouldn't be a problem with hybrids. They could recapture some of the otherwise wasted heat from the engine. Although if the generator is on a detachable trailer that might not work so well. So in regions where the weather can get cold for a significant length of time a hybrid might be the best choice for now. Of course having a compact, dedicated, propane or diesel-oil burning heater would be another solution. So a 100% EV with an auxiliary heater and an optional trailer for long trips seems like a winning combination. As soon as Black and Decker announces theirs I'm buying!

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    One problem with 100% EV is how to heat the cabin in cold weather. I'm thinking that would be a huge drain on the batteries. It wouldn't be a problem with hybrids. They could recapture some of the otherwise wasted heat from the engine. Although if the generator is on a detachable trailer that might not work so well. So in regions where the weather can get cold for a significant length of time a hybrid might be the best choice for now. Of course having a compact, dedicated, propane or diesel-oil burning heater would be another solution. So a 100% EV with an auxiliary heater and an optional trailer for long trips seems like a winning combination. As soon as Black and Decker announces theirs I'm buying!
    I would like to see that setup just for the sheer spectacle! Extra points if you have to keep the window open for the diesel-power indoor heater's exhaust pipe.

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