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Thread: Humans as Non-Animal: Can any inferences be drawn?

  1. Top | #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Nope.
    Good argument.
    Why is Chomsky called the father of modern linguistics?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Nope.
    Good argument.
    Why is Chomsky called the father of modern linguistics?
    You say you aren't deifying him, but you are appealing to a grandiose title awarded by his students rather than to the content of his argument as pertains to the topic of the thread, that is, the development of uniquely human language.

  3. Top | #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Nope.
    Good argument.
    Why is Chomsky called the father of modern linguistics?
    Better argument. Still not a good argument.

    In the first place, Galileo is called the father of science. Are we supposed to infer that Copernicus wasn't a scientist? "The father of X" is an honorific handed out to people who make important advances in a field. Changing a field from non-science to science isn't the only advance important enough to rate the honor. See "List of people considered father or mother of a scientific field". As you'll note, it's a bloody long list.

    In the second place, modern linguistics already had a father before Chomsky was even born. The notion that Saussure wasn't doing science is ludicrous.

    And in the third place, linguistics is a broad field with many subspecializations. Chomsky did a lot for the study of syntax and child language acquisition, but not much for comparative linguistics. When people call him the father of linguistics, that's just them parochially regarding the specializations Chomsky paid attention to as worthier than the ones he didn't.

  4. Top | #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Why is Chomsky called the father of modern linguistics?
    You say you aren't deifying him, but you are appealing to a grandiose title awarded by his students rather than to the content of his argument as pertains to the topic of the thread, that is, the development of uniquely human language.
    His students did not give him that name.

    Biography of Noam Chomsky, Writer and Father of Modern Linguistics
    https://www.thoughtco.com/noam-chomsky-4769113

    Noam Chomsky – ‘The Father of Modern Linguistics’
    https://www.immerse.education/articl...n-linguistics/

    Noam Chomsky: The Father of Modern Linguistics.
    http://www.modlingua.com/blogs/1349-...nguistics.html

    About Noam Chomsky

    Considered the founder of modern linguistics
    https://linguistics.arizona.edu/user/noam-chomsky

    Right now there is only one thing we know for certain.

    You have no clue why Chomsky is called the father of modern linguistics.

  5. Top | #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    Why is Chomsky called the father of modern linguistics?
    Better argument. Still not a good argument.

    In the first place, Galileo is called the father of science. Are we supposed to infer that Copernicus wasn't a scientist? "The father of X" is an honorific handed out to people who make important advances in a field. Changing a field from non-science to science isn't the only advance important enough to rate the honor. See "List of people considered father or mother of a scientific field". As you'll note, it's a bloody long list.

    In the second place, modern linguistics already had a father before Chomsky was even born. The notion that Saussure wasn't doing science is ludicrous.

    And in the third place, linguistics is a broad field with many subspecializations. Chomsky did a lot for the study of syntax and child language acquisition, but not much for comparative linguistics. When people call him the father of linguistics, that's just them parochially regarding the specializations Chomsky paid attention to as worthier than the ones he didn't.
    You are simply ignoring the facts.

    Chomsky is considered the father of modern linguistics by many people.

    And you have no idea why.

  6. Top | #96
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    His students did not give him that name.

    Biography of Noam Chomsky, Writer and Father of Modern Linguistics
    https://www.thoughtco.com/noam-chomsky-4769113

    Noam Chomsky – ‘The Father of Modern Linguistics’
    https://www.immerse.education/articl...n-linguistics/

    Noam Chomsky: The Father of Modern Linguistics.
    http://www.modlingua.com/blogs/1349-...nguistics.html

    About Noam Chomsky

    Considered the founder of modern linguistics
    https://linguistics.arizona.edu/user/noam-chomsky

    Right now there is only one thing we know for certain.

    You have no clue why Chomsky is called the father of modern linguistics.
    If you did, you'd be explaining generative grammar to us instead of expecting platitudes to serve in place of empirical evidence. Seriously, this aside is only relevant to the OP if we take it back in the direction of the tangible evidence that exists for the development of complex language.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  7. Top | #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    His students did not give him that name.



    https://www.thoughtco.com/noam-chomsky-4769113



    https://www.immerse.education/articl...n-linguistics/

    Noam Chomsky: The Father of Modern Linguistics.
    http://www.modlingua.com/blogs/1349-...nguistics.html

    About Noam Chomsky

    Considered the founder of modern linguistics
    https://linguistics.arizona.edu/user/noam-chomsky

    Right now there is only one thing we know for certain.

    You have no clue why Chomsky is called the father of modern linguistics.
    If you did, you'd be explaining generative grammar to us instead of expecting platitudes to serve in place of empirical evidence. Seriously, this aside is only relevant to the OP if we take it back in the direction of the tangible evidence that exists for the development of complex language.
    So now you understand it?

    I don't think so.

    He is not called the father of modern linguistics because of any specific theory he devised.

    He changed the way language was looked at.

    He made the field scientific.

  8. Top | #98
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    His students did not give him that name.



    https://www.thoughtco.com/noam-chomsky-4769113



    https://www.immerse.education/articl...n-linguistics/



    http://www.modlingua.com/blogs/1349-...nguistics.html

    About Noam Chomsky

    Considered the founder of modern linguistics
    https://linguistics.arizona.edu/user/noam-chomsky

    Right now there is only one thing we know for certain.

    You have no clue why Chomsky is called the father of modern linguistics.
    If you did, you'd be explaining generative grammar to us instead of expecting platitudes to serve in place of empirical evidence. Seriously, this aside is only relevant to the OP if we take it back in the direction of the tangible evidence that exists for the development of complex language.
    So now you understand it?

    I don't think so.

    He is not called the father of modern linguistics because of any specific theory he devised.

    He changed the way language was looked at.

    He made the field scientific.
    Your post is internally contradictory; one's theories are not irrelevant to one's practice of science. And what do you even mean by "made the field scientific"? It was already scientific, and if it were not, making it such is not something a single person working alone could possibly do as independent reproducibility is key to any scientific endeavor and indeed the definition of science itself.

    Chomsky is justifiably respected for a number of reasons, but the development of the generative grammar methodology, and to a lesser extent the connected explanatory hypothesis of universal grammar, are his principal achievements and those for which he is (quite rightly) commonly respected by other linguists, along with the more practical reality that his work revivified interest in a then-languishing field and recruited a lot of talent to the field. He is also important for discrediting behaviorist models of language acquisition, which had dominated conversations up until that point but were becoming something of a dead end. You should do some reading on Ferdinand de Saussure, Charles Pearce, Franz Boaz, and Roman Jakobson, if you mistakenly believe that he was the first person to apply a scientific methodology to linguistics. This is not correct, and Dr Chomsky himself would be quick to point that out. In the sciences, we always stand on the shoulders of those who came before us; a lifetime is not enough time to pierce the true mysteries of the universe. Hero worship is an unavoidable reality of social life but irrelevant to the scientific craft.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  9. Top | #99
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    What is linguistics?

    While Skinner focused on the language people were observed using, Chomsky was interested in the underlying structure of language. This shift in focus affected not only how we view the structure of language, but how it might be learned as well; while Skinner believed that children learn language by imitating and repeating what they hear, Chomsky hypothesized that language learning went far deeper than that.

    Chomsky made the study of language scientific. He demonstrated that despite the observable variety of the world’s languages, there is likely only one inventory of linguistic features. All languages — dead, still used, or even future ones — are combinations of these elements. After Chomsky, linguistics is defined as 'the scientific study of language'— 'language' in the singular.
    https://blog.mangolanguages.com/noam...o-linguistics/

  10. Top | #100
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    Humans and cats are very similar. Cats can be easiiy entertained by a laser pointer spot on the floor.

    More complex for humans, humans are easily entertained by laser light shows.

    Male cats are sexualy agrr essive, so are human males.

    Conclusion cats and humans share many characteristics.

    Humans and chimps are similar but with one njhor difference. Chimps have to be trained to do tricks for our entertainment, humans train themselves to do tricks.

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