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Thread: Humans as Non-Animal: Can any inferences be drawn?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Syntax-driven language and religion/science are the main thing. But both have been influential in making us an incredibly distinct species. Let's not discount how interesting we are! As far as we know, no other living organisms has had adventures in the abstract the way we do on a regular basis.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  2. Top | #12
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Syntax-driven language and religion/science are the main thing. But both have been influential in making us an incredibly distinct species. Let's not discount how interesting we are! As far as we know, no other living organisms has had adventures in the abstract the way we do on a regular basis.
    Every species is incredibly distinct. And they're all interesting too.

    As far as I know, every other organism with a frontal cortex has adventures in the abstract. I have little trouble in believing that my dogs might have a more detailed and complex internal universe than some of the duller people I have met. Certainly they twitch and yelp in their sleep in ways that strongly suggest detailed and exciting dreams, as do the dogs.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Every species is incredibly distinct. And they're all interesting too.
    Didn't say they weren't.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Every species is incredibly distinct. And they're all interesting too.
    Didn't say they weren't.
    No, but as they are, your statement that humans are, fails to imply that humans are in any way separate from other species.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Every species is incredibly distinct. And they're all interesting too.
    Didn't say they weren't.
    No, but as they are, your statement that humans are, fails to imply that humans are in any way separate from other species.
    I am not following your logic. Are you claiming that the only way for humans to be a distinct species, is if no other species are distinct species? That doesn't even make sense.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  6. Top | #16
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    No, but as they are, your statement that humans are, fails to imply that humans are in any way separate from other species.
    I am not following your logic. Are you claiming that the only way for humans to be a distinct species, is if no other species are distinct species? That doesn't even make sense.
    Perhaps I should have said "...in any special or unique way separate...".

    Humans are not unusual in being distinct. We are just another species, with another niche. We like to feel like our niche, and therefore our species, is superior. But that's just an egotistical error.

    Yes, we are good storytellers and toolmakers. But we're dreadful at pretty much everything else. We can't fly, digest leaf mulch with our skins, reproduce by mitosis, digest cellulose, or live in deep ocean trenches.

    The idea of a hierarchy of life, with humans at the top, is nonsense. Evolutionary theory shows that all extant species are equally important and impressive.

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    Member aupmanyav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    - is it true that all cultures view themselves as non-animal?
    For Hindus, we humans are just one of the 8.4 million yonis (life forms). Being born as a human is a privilege and the only chance when one could aspire for Moksha/Englightenment. Not doing our 'karmas' right, not following our 'dharma', will send us to other yonis. Kabir said:

    "tune rāt gavāi soy ke, divas gavāyā khāy; hirā janam amol thā, kauri badle jāy."

    (You have spent the night in sleeping and the day in eating; you got a precious diamond birth (as a human), but you are selling it for a cowry.)

    "ākar chāri lakh chaurāsi, jāti jiva jal thal nabh vāsi;"


    (Four kinds of living beings live in 8.4 million forms, in water, land or sky.)

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    I think it safe to claim that all the above animals, and all animals, don't know that they are animals.
    That is a division made by humans and not by evolution. How would they know? If you go among them, they will conider that you are just another kind of living being. Does a lion care whether he is killing a boar or a human. For it all are the same - food.
    Last edited by aupmanyav; 03-03-2021 at 09:27 AM. Reason: additional info.

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    I suggest that some of you read the book, "Are we Smart Enough to Know how Smart Animals are", by Frans de Waal. De Waal is a primatologists who was initially ridiculed for comparing the human animal to other animals, but we know now that we have a lot more in common with other animals than we once thought.

  9. Top | #19
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    No, but as they are, your statement that humans are, fails to imply that humans are in any way separate from other species.
    I am not following your logic. Are you claiming that the only way for humans to be a distinct species, is if no other species are distinct species? That doesn't even make sense.
    Perhaps I should have said "...in any special or unique way separate...".

    Humans are not unusual in being distinct. We are just another species, with another niche. We like to feel like our niche, and therefore our species, is superior. But that's just an egotistical error.

    Yes, we are good storytellers and toolmakers. But we're dreadful at pretty much everything else. We can't fly, digest leaf mulch with our skins, reproduce by mitosis, digest cellulose, or live in deep ocean trenches.

    The idea of a hierarchy of life, with humans at the top, is nonsense. Evolutionary theory shows that all extant species are equally important and impressive.
    I didn't say we were superior, or posit any kind of hierarchy.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  10. Top | #20
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    We are better at it but hob human species solve problems and appear to reason things out.

    Daylight Robbery may still be on the net. Someone set up obstacle courses for squirrels with food at the end. It seemed clear to me there was observation, trial and error, and reasoning.

    There are chimps that fasion stobe tools by chipping to crack nuts. The skill is passed on by observation and mimicry.

    There is a long list.

    White supremacy has been in the spotlight for a while now. There is also human supremecy which is just as hrmful. We cantraol nature, a belif held even in rhe face a lkarege atural disasters. We are the biggest and baddest.

    If wid bees die off the ecosystem diminishes. Plants provide oxygen.

    We are just like any oter critter in he ecosystem.,

    The one difference is that technology has to a large degree shielded us from nature so we feel detached.

    Nature always seem to pull things into balance. Washout a vaccine COVID might have led to large scale population reduction.

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