Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45

Thread: To translate, you must have the correct skin color

  1. Top | #21
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,529
    Archived
    229
    Total Posts
    3,758
    Rep Power
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Proper skin color is now becoming more and more of a requirement to perform certain work.
    That's a huge leap to come about over one incident.

  2. Top | #22
    Veteran Member Axulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    4,090
    Archived
    10,958
    Total Posts
    15,048
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by prideandfall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post

    That question reveals you know little if anything at all about Amanda Gorman's work. Why are you here?
    So you think your skin color determines what you can translate?
    it is absolutely a known and quantified fact that translation is often contextual, exponentially more so the more abstract the source is.
    as such, shared life experiences can definitely impact the quality of a translation, since nuance and intent are a huge part of it when dealing with translating something that isn't strictly technical data.

    not that this is to say that lacking a shared background between the source and the translator automatically means a lesser quality of work, but it DOES demonstrate that there is a measurable improvement in translation when you increase contextual understanding.
    this gets a lot into the weeds of translation vs. transliteration vs. interpretation, which is a really big deal if you know anything about transcribing or translating languages... but, the end result is that there IS a valid reason to suggest that someone who better matches the experience of the author of the source will, on average, produce a better quality translation of a work by that author.

    now that isn't to jump to the conclusion that this dutch person couldn't have handled it adeptly, i'm merely pointing out there are concrete logistical reasons to want a translator who has some kind of similar background to the author, that has nothing to do necessarily with the genetics of skin color and more to do with the contextual experience of living as a black person.
    Except that isn't why people were outraged. No one said that this Dutch translator doesn't have sufficient "shared life experience" to adequately perform the job. They said they have the wrong skin color, full stop (which is a very poor proxy for shared life experience given the completely different countries).

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member Axulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    4,090
    Archived
    10,958
    Total Posts
    15,048
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Proper skin color is now becoming more and more of a requirement to perform certain work.
    That's a huge leap to come about over one incident.
    It's not the only incident in recent years where people were outraged about a person not having the correct skin color to perform a certain job.

  4. Top | #24
    Liberal Rastafarian Gospel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    780
    Archived
    138
    Total Posts
    918
    Rep Power
    50
    I'm with Axulus on this but only because I really want a black superman movie.

  5. Top | #25
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Burnsville, MN
    Posts
    5,545
    Archived
    2,911
    Total Posts
    8,456
    Rep Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    I'm with Axulus on this but only because I really want a black superman movie.
    Ok, you've won me over.

    I'm already a huge fan of The Thirteenth Doctor...

  6. Top | #26
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    6,870
    Archived
    10,974
    Total Posts
    17,844
    Rep Power
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    I'm with Axulus on this but only because I really want a black superman movie.
    Ok, you've won me over.

    I'm already a huge fan of The Thirteenth Doctor...
    Colin Baker must be so grateful to Chibnall for writing Whittaker's Doctor, for now the sixth Doctor is firmly penultimate, instead of dead last, in the rankings of Doctors from best to worst.

  7. Top | #27
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    6,870
    Archived
    10,974
    Total Posts
    17,844
    Rep Power
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Proper skin color is now becoming more and more of a requirement to perform certain work.
    That's a huge leap to come about over one incident.
    There are many such 'incidents'. White voice actors are no longer welcome to play non-white characters in animation (it doesn't go the other way). Harry Shearer stepped down from voicing Dr Hibbert even though he'd been playing Dr Hibbert for thirty years (nobody could possibly be more qualified than Shearer to play Hibbert).

    The same movement has also stymied and censored white writers. On the one hand, told not to write characters whose race differs to their own ("stay in your lane"), and on the other told that there is no diversity in their writing.

  8. Top | #28
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    18,698
    Archived
    41,943
    Total Posts
    60,641
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by prideandfall View Post
    it is absolutely a known and quantified fact that translation is often contextual, exponentially more so the more abstract the source is.
    as such, shared life experiences can definitely impact the quality of a translation, since nuance and intent are a huge part of it when dealing with translating something that isn't strictly technical data.

    not that this is to say that lacking a shared background between the source and the translator automatically means a lesser quality of work, but it DOES demonstrate that there is a measurable improvement in translation when you increase contextual understanding.
    this gets a lot into the weeds of translation vs. transliteration vs. interpretation, which is a really big deal if you know anything about transcribing or translating languages... but, the end result is that there IS a valid reason to suggest that someone who better matches the experience of the author of the source will, on average, produce a better quality translation of a work by that author.

    now that isn't to jump to the conclusion that this dutch person couldn't have handled it adeptly, i'm merely pointing out there are concrete logistical reasons to want a translator who has some kind of similar background to the author, that has nothing to do necessarily with the genetics of skin color and more to do with the contextual experience of living as a black person.
    Except that isn't why people were outraged. No one said that this Dutch translator doesn't have sufficient "shared life experience" to adequately perform the job. They said they have the wrong skin color, full stop (which is a very poor proxy for shared life experience given the completely different countries).
    According to your link, the quoted objector said
    "And her work and life have been colored by her experience and identity as a black woman. Is it -- to say the least -- not a missed opportunity to hire Marieke Lucas Rijneveld for this job?" she added, pointing out that the Dutch writer has "no experience in this area."
    which suggests to me the objection is that the proposed translator is perceived to not have a sufficient shared life experience with a black woman because the translator is white.

    Do I think skin color should disqualify someone from being a translator? No.
    Do I think an effective translator needs to know more than the language? Yes.
    Do I think an effective translator needs to be able to understand the text in question in the context of the times in which it was written and the social and historical context? Yes.

  9. Top | #29
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    18,698
    Archived
    41,943
    Total Posts
    60,641
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Sort of like the US until the 1970s.
    So you admit that the wokesters are the 21st century equivalent of the segregationists?
    Well, when they pass laws and have the police enforce them with violence, then yes. Until then, no.

    I admit this particular objection is either stupid or poorly articulated. But there are plenty of stupid or poorly articulated objections made in this world all of the time.

  10. Top | #30
    Liberal Rastafarian Gospel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    780
    Archived
    138
    Total Posts
    918
    Rep Power
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axulus View Post
    Proper skin color is now becoming more and more of a requirement to perform certain work.
    That's a huge leap to come about over one incident.
    There are many such 'incidents'. White voice actors are no longer welcome to play non-white characters in animation (it doesn't go the other way). Harry Shearer stepped down from voicing Dr Hibbert even though he'd been playing Dr Hibbert for thirty years (nobody could possibly be more qualified than Shearer to play Hibbert).

    The same movement has also stymied and censored white writers. On the one hand, told not to write characters whose race differs to their own ("stay in your lane"), and on the other told that there is no diversity in their writing.
    You do know this has been going on for ages right? I recall a few decades ago when only white people were allowed to be on television and black people were played by white people. Hell, even the image of Jesus was changed from woolly to silky hair (hasn't changed back). Where have you been all this time? We could have used your efforts to effect change since Christ walked on water.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •