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Thread: Bill Would Require California Retailers To Have Gender-Neutral Sections; Violators Face Fines

  1. Top | #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Do you believe a shopper looking for trousers for his 8-year-old boy who has outgrown the last batch is more likely to find what he's looking for among trousers for eight year old girls, or among sweaters for six year old boys? If the shop sorts by gender first, the latter will be closer than the former. He may end up with with trousers he doesn't like because he never went to look at the girls' where they would have had what he was looking for,and a sweater he likes but didn't need. That may or may not increase sales, but it's not serving customers' needs
    I believe the government should focus on more important issues than how a merchant lays out their products on the shop floor and let the store figure out the best way to serve their customers.

  2. Top | #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Do you believe a shopper looking for trousers for his 8-year-old boy who has outgrown the last batch is more likely to find what he's looking for among trousers for eight year old girls, or among sweaters for six year old boys? If the shop sorts by gender first, the latter will be closer than the former. He may end up with with trousers he doesn't like because he never went to look at the girls' where they would have had what he was looking for,and a sweater he likes but didn't need. That may or may not increase sales, but it's not serving customers' needs
    I believe the government should focus on more important issues than how a merchant lays out their products on the shop floor and let the store figure out the best way to serve their customers.
    I notice you didn't answer my question. There's the question whether gender neutral shop would lead to improved or impoverished customer experiences, and there's the question of whether poorer customer experiences are enough of a problem to justify a legal response. I'm not interested in discussing the second question, and you haven't touched the first, so I guess unless you want to start addressing my there's little we have to discuss.

    You can always change that by responding to what I wrote instead of what someone like me might have written.

  3. Top | #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Do you believe a shopper looking for trousers for his 8-year-old boy who has outgrown the last batch is more likely to find what he's looking for among trousers for eight year old girls, or among sweaters for six year old boys? If the shop sorts by gender first, the latter will be closer than the former. He may end up with with trousers he doesn't like because he never went to look at the girls' where they would have had what he was looking for,and a sweater he likes but didn't need. That may or may not increase sales, but it's not serving customers' needs
    I believe the government should focus on more important issues than how a merchant lays out their products on the shop floor and let the store figure out the best way to serve their customers.
    I notice you didn't answer my question. There's the question whether gender neutral shop would lead to improved or impoverished customer experiences, and there's the question of whether poorer customer experiences are enough of a problem to justify a legal response. I'm not interested in discussing the second question, and you haven't touched the first, so I guess unless you want to start addressing my there's little we have to discuss.

    You can always change that by responding to what I wrote instead of what someone like me might have written.
    This is a thread in the politics forum about a political story.

  4. Top | #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post

    I notice you didn't answer my question. There's the question whether gender neutral shop would lead to improved or impoverished customer experiences, and there's the question of whether poorer customer experiences are enough of a problem to justify a legal response. I'm not interested in discussing the second question, and you haven't touched the first, so I guess unless you want to start addressing my there's little we have to discuss.

    You can always change that by responding to what I wrote instead of what someone like me might have written.
    This is a thread in the politics forum about a political story.
    It is, indeed.

    But several people have expressed or hinted that they believe that stores doing what this bill would require them to do would ruin customers' experiences. That's where I jumped in, and that's the notion I'm challenging. No one seems to be willing to defend this notion, though.

  5. Top | #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post

    I notice you didn't answer my question. There's the question whether gender neutral shop would lead to improved or impoverished customer experiences, and there's the question of whether poorer customer experiences are enough of a problem to justify a legal response. I'm not interested in discussing the second question, and you haven't touched the first, so I guess unless you want to start addressing my there's little we have to discuss.

    You can always change that by responding to what I wrote instead of what someone like me might have written.
    This is a thread in the politics forum about a political story.
    It is, indeed.

    But several people have expressed or hinted that they believe that stores doing what this bill would require them to do would ruin customers' experiences. That's where I jumped in, and that's the notion I'm challenging. No one seems to be willing to defend this notion, though.
    The experience would be mixed for different people and for different shopping purposes. Whether it is overall a benefit or disbenefit depends on how much you weight those experiences.

    Some people will value the sex-segregated sections for toys and clothes, because it's arranged in a way that they are used to and they know where to go to find what they want.

    Some people have nothing beyond 'age and sex' to go on when shopping for someone else's child (birthday, Christmas gifts), and/or have children they are shopping for who have strongly sex-stereotyped interests, and for them it will be probably be inconvenient.

    Some people already dislike sex-segregated spaces in shops and will welcome the move.

    Some people who have strict notions of what is appropriate for their child based on sex-segregation will be inconvenienced. If it's that important to them, they'll still be able to forbid 'inappropriate' toys and clothes for their children based on their own judgment.

  6. Top | #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post

    It is, indeed.

    But several people have expressed or hinted that they believe that stores doing what this bill would require them to do would ruin customers' experiences. That's where I jumped in, and that's the notion I'm challenging. No one seems to be willing to defend this notion, though.
    The experience would be mixed for different people and for different shopping purposes. Whether it is overall a benefit or disbenefit depends on how much you weight those experiences.

    Some people will value the sex-segregated sections for toys and clothes, because it's arranged in a way that they are used to and they know where to go to find what they want.

    Some people have nothing beyond 'age and sex' to go on when shopping for someone else's child (birthday, Christmas gifts), and/or have children they are shopping for who have strongly sex-stereotyped interests, and for them it will be probably be inconvenient.
    Why would it be? If the eight-year-old boy needs new trousers, however strongly sex-stereotyped his interests are, he will have little use for a sweater that fits a six-year old boy. If the parents are looking for a card game he can play with his friends, an ever so boyish lego set isn't what they're looking for. At most, they wouldn't benefit from it, but it don't see how it would inconvenience them.

  7. Top | #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Why would it be? If the eight-year-old boy needs new trousers, however strongly sex-stereotyped his interests are, he will have little use for a sweater that fits a six-year old boy. If the parents are looking for a card game he can play with his friends, an ever so boyish lego set isn't what they're looking for. At most, they wouldn't benefit from it, but it don't see how it would inconvenience them.
    I can't follow your reasoning. I think you've misunderstood something about my scenario. Why would I buy an item of clothing that would fit a six year old for an eight year old? Where did you get the idea that the hypothetical involved somebody who knew about the child's interests? I said the person doing the buying doesn't have much to go on other than 'age and sex'.

  8. Top | #128
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    Apropos of the thread, does anyone have an idea what to buy for a child turning 1? I'm her godfather but I freely confess I don't know her interests. Also I'm not trying to be funny, I need to buy something before the weekend.

  9. Top | #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Apropos of the thread, does anyone have an idea what to buy for a child turning 1? I'm her godfather but I freely confess I don't know her interests. Also I'm not trying to be funny, I need to buy something before the weekend.
    Some form of securities, perhaps in a tax advantaged account?

  10. Top | #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Apropos of the thread, does anyone have an idea what to buy for a child turning 1? I'm her godfather but I freely confess I don't know her interests. Also I'm not trying to be funny, I need to buy something before the weekend.
    Some form of securities, perhaps in a tax advantaged account?
    Somebody else actually mentioned this but I don't think I've got the time to set it up now. It sounds like it involves trusts and lawyers and....things.

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