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Thread: Without Remorse - Amazon

  1. Top | #21
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    any biological female nudity in the movie?

  2. Top | #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    I suppose 27 yrs will lead to some detail losses. Honestly, all I remember is him eating candy bars, waiting to torture people.
    You remembered more of the plot than the people who did the movie, so that's something at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by none View Post
    any biological female nudity in the movie?
    There's hardly any females in the movie, period.

  4. Top | #24
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    I watched it - what a waste. I swear that the plot of this movie has been made before. Kind of like how TV used to take used scripts from the Mod Squad and remake them as episodes in Charlie's Angles . . . .

    No relationship to the book what so ever.

    I read the book, way back when, was looking forward to a movie version. This was not it.

    One of the things about Clancy is that he created a universe and parallel (and sometimes overlapping) characters. I liked that very much. Doesn't translate well to the movies.

    Unfortunately, Clancy is an author who started at the top and went slowly downhill. Even more unfortunately TV and Hollywood have mined his characters to their own versions of his stories trading on his name. No surprise.

    Contrast that with Michael Connelly and his Bosch series of books. Bosch the TV series largely follows the books, and lives within the the Bosch world. Also interesting, Connelly also has parallel and sometime overlapping characters: the Lincoln Lawyer, made into a movie (without Bosch) but well done and following the book very well.

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyzer View Post
    I watched it - what a waste. I swear that the plot of this movie has been made before. Kind of like how TV used to take used scripts from the Mod Squad and remake them as episodes in Charlie's Angles . . . .

    No relationship to the book what so ever.

    I read the book, way back when, was looking forward to a movie version. This was not it.

    One of the things about Clancy is that he created a universe and parallel (and sometimes overlapping) characters. I liked that very much. Doesn't translate well to the movies.

    Unfortunately, Clancy is an author who started at the top and went slowly downhill. Even more unfortunately TV and Hollywood have mined his characters to their own versions of his stories trading on his name. No surprise.

    Contrast that with Michael Connelly and his Bosch series of books. Bosch the TV series largely follows the books, and lives within the the Bosch world. Also interesting, Connelly also has parallel and sometime overlapping characters: the Lincoln Lawyer, made into a movie (without Bosch) but well done and following the book very well.
    Clancy books are far too intricate to be turned into good movies even when they stand alone from the series fine. (The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears.)

  6. Top | #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Clancy books are far too intricate to be turned into good movies even when they stand alone from the series fine. (The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears.)
    I'd say it's pretty doable. just don't be so rigid to the source material. Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger are examples. In the case of Without Remorse make Kelly a former Green Beret who trained Peshmerga forces in Iraq instead of being a SEAL in Vietnam. Have kidnapped contractors that need rescuing instead of captured air force POWs. And instead of Kelly going after heroin dealers in the city, have him go after oxy dealers and opioid buses in rural America. Same story, just updated in a contemporary setting.

  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Clancy books are far too intricate to be turned into good movies even when they stand alone from the series fine. (The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears.)
    I'd say it's pretty doable. just don't be so rigid to the source material. Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger are examples. In the case of Without Remorse make Kelly a former Green Beret who trained Peshmerga forces in Iraq instead of being a SEAL in Vietnam. Have kidnapped contractors that need rescuing instead of captured air force POWs. And instead of Kelly going after heroin dealers in the city, have him go after oxy dealers and opioid buses in rural America. Same story, just updated in a contemporary setting.
    Both of those rang pretty hollow in movie form to me.

    As for your fixes to Without Remorse, I have no problem with updating contexts like that, but the fundamental problem I see is the book is all about the character and contains very little action--utterly unsuitable to being made into an action movie. And even the action in the book isn't very useful as it's about stealthy murders--one instant and it's over. What makes a good book is very different than what makes a good movie.

    For a rather extreme example of the difference, consider [i]A Rising Thunder[/b], a novel in the Honor Harrington universe. In it there is the largest space battle that has existed in the universe--to which the author devoted zero words. We saw the sequence of events that led up to it and then immediately jumped to the aftermath. The author did the right thing, but can you imagine a movie that did something like that?

    It was even more imbalanced than Desert Storm was--why the losers didn't surrender when offered the chance was important, what would happen when the trigger was pulled was completely obvious.


  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Clancy books are far too intricate to be turned into good movies even when they stand alone from the series fine. (The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears.)
    I'd say it's pretty doable. just don't be so rigid to the source material. Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger are examples.
    Patriot Games without the final boat scene or something a bit less over-the-top would have worked better. Clear and Present Danger kills off half the cast, but in its own bubble it worked.

    I actually read Clear and Present Danger well after seeing the movie. The opening sea trial was incredible in the book. In the movie, just a blip. And likely because it'd come across as way too hard in the film. You are supposed to like the good guys, but when the good guys are acting like pirates, it gets a bit harder.

    If Infinity War could happen, Sum of All Fears (and the remainder of the trilogy) could work... if done competently. Though, it could be argued that those books are past their time. Regardless, pulp seems to make more money (or at least the movie companies think so, hence crap Star Wars and Star Trek films). I'm still not certain how Marvel managed to make it all work, especially with how dangerously campy the material could get.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Clancy books are far too intricate to be turned into good movies even when they stand alone from the series fine. (The Hunt for Red October, The Sum of All Fears.)
    I'd say it's pretty doable. just don't be so rigid to the source material. Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger are examples.
    Patriot Games without the final boat scene or something a bit less over-the-top would have worked better. Clear and Present Danger kills off half the cast, but in its own bubble it worked.

    I actually read Clear and Present Danger well after seeing the movie. The opening sea trial was incredible in the book. In the movie, just a blip. And likely because it'd come across as way too hard in the film. You are supposed to like the good guys, but when the good guys are acting like pirates, it gets a bit harder.

    If Infinity War could happen, Sum of All Fears (and the remainder of the trilogy) could work... if done competently. Though, it could be argued that those books are past their time. Regardless, pulp seems to make more money (or at least the movie companies think so, hence crap Star Wars and Star Trek films). I'm still not certain how Marvel managed to make it all work, especially with how dangerously campy the material could get.
    Sum of All Fears and The Hunt for Red October are the only ones that paid more than a passing glance at the book. Making a decent movie with almost no similarity to the book to me doesn't count as making a decent movie out of a book. Especially when they replaced Islamists with Nazis--hey, if Russia and the US shoot it out there's not going to be much left of Germany, either. Clancy books are very good about not leaving plot holes. Movies from Clancy books are particularly bad about it.

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