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Thread: I think fake news is good

  1. Top | #31
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    People not knowing the truth about what is happening in the world is never good.

    Not good for anyone or anything.

    Proper response always requires understanding what you are responding to.

    When people have no clue what power is doing they can easily become enemies to useful change and progress.

    The Middle Ages were a time when there was also very little concern for the truth.

  2. Top | #32
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    I watched a news segment on fake video. It is getting very easy to produce fake video. Scary stuff, on the order of scifi fiction.

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    I think fake news will ultimately have two effects.

    1) make people more mistrusting of news so do more homework.
    2) they will be frustrated about not knowing what is true so turn away from any intellectualism.

    I'm from Sweden, a nation both of engineers as well as one with anti-intellectual and populist political tradition. In Sweden's case the anti intellectualism of the culture led to politicians outsourcing policy making to researchers. Which in hindsight has worked out well for Sweden. All things considered. So I'm not afraid of either scenario.

    While I'm aware of the rise of conspiracy theory nonsense. But I think this is a passing trend. People aren't going to jump from one conspiracy theory to the next. They're going to put their chips on one conspiracy theory that'll crash and burn, and then go back to anti-intellectualism.

    I know a lot of people in the Swedish rave scene. These are highly anti-intellectual. We had a rise in anti-immigration conspiracy theories peaking 2016. When a large number of them started making political posts for the first time ever. Now they're back to posting funny memes. I think this is how the new age of fake news will work. Anti-intellectuals will latch onto something dumb which will blow up in their faces and then they're out for good. This is a good thing.

  4. Top | #34
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    Mistrust in media is far from new. I first heard 'don't trust everything you read in the newspapers' as a kid in the 50s.

    Along with 'you can't trust city hall'.

  5. Top | #35
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Mistrust in media is far from new. I first heard 'don't trust everything you read in the newspapers' as a kid in the 50s.

    Along with 'you can't trust city hall'.
    In the 50s you had very little alternatives. So just mistrusting Media won't get you any closer to finding out what is true unless you have access to to some information and data that is accurate. That was only really made available after the introduction of the Internet.

    We are truly living in a new age of information now. It's good because we have now access to a greater understanding of the world. But it's bad because there's fewer clear grand narratives to get behind.

    I don't think it's strange that blaming everything on immigrants became a thing again. Because only the grossly uniformed could ever hope to find a shared story to get behind. The knowledgable crowd will never again be able to agree on anything

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Mistrust in media is far from new. I first heard 'don't trust everything you read in the newspapers' as a kid in the 50s.

    Along with 'you can't trust city hall'.
    In the 50s you had very little alternatives. So just mistrusting Media won't get you any closer to finding out what is true unless you have access to to some information and data that is accurate. That was only really made available after the introduction of the Internet.

    We are truly living in a new age of information now. It's good because we have now access to a greater understanding of the world. But it's bad because there's fewer clear grand narratives to get behind.

    I don't think it's strange that blaming everything on immigrants became a thing again. Because only the grossly uniformed could ever hope to find a shared story to get behind. The knowledgable crowd will never again be able to agree on anything
    We have no greater understanding of the world because of the internet. We have more disinformation believed. That's all.

    We understood what was happening just fine. If you listened to people like Chomsky.

    Post WWII US the government has worked with corporations (The Military Industrial Complex) and subverted and undermined governments all over the world to exploit resources.

    The Soviet dictatorship did the same.

    And both sent armies and attacked other nations to back up their plans and to send messages to those who might try to oppose them.

    The Soviet dictatorship has mutated slightly but things are basically still the same. China is now a big player and they are exploiting where they can as well.

  7. Top | #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Mistrust in media is far from new. I first heard 'don't trust everything you read in the newspapers' as a kid in the 50s.

    Along with 'you can't trust city hall'.
    In the 50s you had very little alternatives. So just mistrusting Media won't get you any closer to finding out what is true unless you have access to to some information and data that is accurate. That was only really made available after the introduction of the Internet.

    We are truly living in a new age of information now. It's good because we have now access to a greater understanding of the world. But it's bad because there's fewer clear grand narratives to get behind.

    I don't think it's strange that blaming everything on immigrants became a thing again. Because only the grossly uniformed could ever hope to find a shared story to get behind. The knowledgable crowd will never again be able to agree on anything
    Exactly right. The perennial question, what is truth?

    From a bio I read of Jefferson in his da, jut like today, political operatives wrote fake news pieces under a false name. Dirty tricks were common.

    The term Honest Abe for Lincoln was a pollical construction. In reality he was a haer nosed politician not averse to dirty tricks. Today [eople would go to jail for tricks played to ensure his nomination at a convention.

    American media has always been dirty. CNN is biased, just more subtle than FOX.

    A state cop I met said to me 'Individually people are smart, collectively they are like sheep'. Like when gawkers slow down at a highway accident creating traffic jams.


    Some media outlets are better than others but you can not trust any of it. Jefferson thought democracy required an educated population. We have educated members of congress from top schools who can not understand the fundamentals of climate change.

    The media is a reflection of the population.

    We are near the point where fake video and audio will be visually impossible to see.

    You can get apps that will learn someone's voice and turn your speech into the other.

  8. Top | #38
    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Some media outlets are better than others but you can not trust any of it. Jefferson thought democracy required an educated population. We have educated members of congress from top schools who can not understand the fundamentals of climate change.
    They are more than capable of understanding it, but they are motivated to deny it.

    Energy companies (and mining companies in Australia) make big political donations, and they expect a little sucky-sucky fucky-fucky in return.

    Climate change has also become part of the culture wars; believing the science of climate change is a green left position, therefore right wing politicians can gain political clout by opposing this commie conspiracy.

  9. Top | #39
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Some media outlets are better than others but you can not trust any of it. Jefferson thought democracy required an educated population. We have educated members of congress from top schools who can not understand the fundamentals of climate change.
    They are more than capable of understanding it, but they are motivated to deny it.

    Energy companies (and mining companies in Australia) make big political donations, and they expect a little sucky-sucky fucky-fucky in return.

    Climate change has also become part of the culture wars; believing the science of climate change is a green left position, therefore right wing politicians can gain political clout by opposing this commie conspiracy.
    What I don't understand about the culture wars in USA, is that, doesn't people see what it's about? The priests are afraid they will lose power, so they whip up their congregations to oppose anything that might threaten their hold over their congregations. Because they're afraid of being out of a job. Parents are afraid they'll lose control over their kids. So they're in on the game. How is it not possible to see that this is what is going on?

    It makes me sad that the culture wars have come to the Middle-East and is winning ground. We ducked that bullet in Europe. For reasons not clear to me. But the culture wars truly is poison. The worst aspect of religion.

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    What I don't understand about the culture wars in USA, is that, doesn't people see what it's about? The priests are afraid they will lose power, so they whip up their congregations to oppose anything that might threaten their hold over their congregations. Because they're afraid of being out of a job. Parents are afraid they'll lose control over their kids. So they're in on the game. How is it not possible to see that this is what is going on?
    I've noticed that people often have zero interest on what is happening behind the scenes. They read the newspaper, watch TV news, listen to AM radio, and browse social media, consuming media uncritically.

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