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Thread: Animals That Speak

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    Animals That Speak

    So, something that has been happening recently is that people have been teaching animals to talk. The prime example I could hold up is @whataboutbunny on TikTok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAuULtq/.

    This is an example of a dog whose learning of language is being documented. This is a dog at least as communicative as an ape, and the dog is not even very old. There are also cats and all manner of other critter that has been convinced to start using language.

    What implications do you all think this may have on the fact that we eat them?

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    The dog hits random buttons and the human strains to make sense of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    The dog hits random buttons and the human strains to make sense of it.
    Actually watch some of the videos if you want to make that claim. When children first start babbling, they do so randomly and the adults strain to assign sense to it, too.

    Many months in, now, and Bunny is learning to combine words to generate intersectional ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    The dog hits random buttons and the human strains to make sense of it.
    Actually watch some of the videos if you want to make that claim. When children first start babbling, they do so randomly and the adults strain to assign sense to it, too.

    Many months in, now, and Bunny is learning to combine words to generate intersectional ideas.
    I'm very familiar with the work and the work with gorillas.

    You have a women desperate to make some kind of sense out of random button pushing.

    The dog may associate some produced sounds with a certain reward as dogs can do.

    But it isn't language. Not close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    The dog hits random buttons and the human strains to make sense of it.
    Actually watch some of the videos if you want to make that claim. When children first start babbling, they do so randomly and the adults strain to assign sense to it, too.

    Many months in, now, and Bunny is learning to combine words to generate intersectional ideas.
    I'm very familiar with the work and the work with gorillas.

    You have a women desperate to make some kind of sense out of random button pushing.

    The dog may associate some produced sounds with a certain reward as dogs can do.

    But it isn't language. Not close.
    Your mere assertions that "it isn't" are about similar to what I've seen said about Coco, or other apes before her. There have been whole pieces of popular media focusing on such immediate attempts to say IT CANT BE, in cavalier abandon to the eventuality of discovering IT IS.

    That some dogs talk is not in question for the purposes of this thread. I think I made that rather clear. The purposes of this thread is to consider the ethical implications of eating things that can speak.

    Your insistence that they cannot does not constitute a rigorous disproof of it happening and if you wish to get into the natural science of it you can create a natural science post where you disprove with rigor that this dog is communicating.

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    No dogs talk.

    Dogs can bang their paws onto objects.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Why animals make and hear sounds? Not a tough one. Extending from touch and scent and muscular expression to aural communication. Why not extend interpreting similarly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    So, something that has been happening recently is that people have been teaching animals to talk. The prime example I could hold up is @whataboutbunny on TikTok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAuULtq/.

    This is an example of a dog whose learning of language is being documented. This is a dog at least as communicative as an ape, and the dog is not even very old. There are also cats and all manner of other critter that has been convinced to start using language.

    What implications do you all think this may have on the fact that we eat them?
    Speak for yourself - I don't eat dogs or cats.

    As humans learn more about other species, we are getting more evidence that many animals are not "dumb" but sentinent beings capable of recognizing themselves and others as separate entities and who communicate.

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    So, something that has been happening recently is that people have been teaching animals to talk. The prime example I could hold up is @whataboutbunny on TikTok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAuULtq/.

    This is an example of a dog whose learning of language is being documented. This is a dog at least as communicative as an ape, and the dog is not even very old. There are also cats and all manner of other critter that has been convinced to start using language.

    What implications do you all think this may have on the fact that we eat them?
    All animals communicate, although I wouldn't describe that dog as talking. To me talking means using sounds to communicate. Slightly different that speech, which can be written or some other non-aural mode. But I think it's probably a bad idea to eat an individual animal that has demonstrated the ability to communicate with humans. It would diminish the value of human life in general since it uniquely characterizes what it means to be human.

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    So, something that has been happening recently is that people have been teaching animals to talk. The prime example I could hold up is @whataboutbunny on TikTok https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAuULtq/.

    This is an example of a dog whose learning of language is being documented. This is a dog at least as communicative as an ape, and the dog is not even very old. There are also cats and all manner of other critter that has been convinced to start using language.

    What implications do you all think this may have on the fact that we eat them?
    I fail to understand your 'reasoning'. What makes our eating an 'intelligent' species that can't or don't communicate with humans in a manner that the human can understand no problem but a less 'intelligent' species that does manage to communicate a little that humans can understand immoral to eat?

    Or are you measuring intelligence only by whether a human can understand them? If so, that seems like a slippery slope. Humans have used this measuring stick to label other humans that they can't understand as inferior... from my experience this is currently primarily those who speak English or French who see peoples who can't communicate in their language as inferior.

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