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Thread: Rationalizing faith.

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Debate? How do you debate on behalf of faith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Debate? How do you debate on behalf of faith?
    You must of missed (if not ignored or forgotten) those many upon many video -recorded debates that's out there online. Whether you agree to how each individual defines their faith or not in their debates ...

    It's been done my friend, regardless.

    Those debates EXIST!

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Debate? How do you debate on behalf of faith?
    You must of missed (if not ignored or forgotten) those many upon many video -recorded debates that's out there online. Whether you agree to how each individual defines their faith or not in their debates ...

    It's been done my friend, regardless.

    Those debates EXIST!
    The debates, like faith itself, do exist....but that doesn't mean that those arguing on behalf of faith have a leg to stand on.

  4. Top | #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Debate? How do you debate on behalf of faith?
    You must of missed (if not ignored or forgotten) those many upon many video -recorded debates that's out there online. Whether you agree to how each individual defines their faith or not in their debates ...

    It's been done my friend, regardless.

    Those debates EXIST!
    I hope I am not shaking your faith?

    For me definition is unimportant, unless the faith or belief is harmful to others. All beliefs serve in the end provide an emotional shield and a sense of security. The internal Christian debates are just pointless distractions. Evangelicals reject Catholics and Mormons. Debates over who is a real Christian. Part and parcel of any social organization, religion is the same form as any group. Debate over something I see as myth and illusion and perhaps delusion means nothing to me.

    I read a bio of Aquinas. His job was a theology 'hit man'. He traveled around debating those who questioned the Vatican orthodoxy. Thousands of years of theology, leading to violence and war.

    I do not fear the valley of the shadow of death because god, living in denial of aging and death. If it is not one thing it is another.

    Christian faith is a talisman to ward off evil, regardless of how you rationalize faith. It makes you feel secure.

    I see most of modern western human culture to be about creating an emotional bubble keeping out the reality of our existence and nature. Religion being one of many.

    I am not anti religion or any belief in general as long as it is not destructive.. Oppressing gays based on a few lines in an ancient text is harmful. Beiveing god will protect you and not getting vaccinated is harmful to society. Parents who deny mediqcl treatment for kids based on faith healing. Rationalizing absurdity through faith.

    And again as I see it it is not just religion that can be harmful. There are plenty of other cultural facets that are harmful, and we are witnessing it. The rise in mass killings and addictions. Which is why I criticize AF for a singular focus on religion as a root cause of our ills.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    If there is a most hated atheist, I'm thunking it is probably Mao Zedong, whose family name has become a byword for everything Evangelicals fear and despise.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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    Christianity io all rationalisation.

    The character of Jesus appears to be a Jewish rabbi preching to Jes about what would have been the impending fall to Rome. That was the geopolitics of the day.

    Rome comdered the eary fllowers a heritc Jewsih sect. CWhat vecmae 'Christians' apporieted the Jewish scripture as their own.

    From then on ot was ratnalization of actions and beleifs.

    Rationalize away the Jewish dietary laws but keep the Leviticus injunction against gays. Christians freely pick and choose.

    Fred Tompson who was a congressmen and actor who played a DA on Law And Order was quetioned about his divorce and marriage to a trophy wife and the biblical prohibition on divorce for convenience. He said he was right with god and god was right with him. The typical Christian rationalization of behavior.

    There are 613 mandates that can be derived from the OT, they are online.

    The RCC rationalizes the authority of the pope as being derived from s line of succession back to Peter as bishop of Rome.

    Compared to a tradition like Buddhism there is little of direct structure and form to Christianity. Post Reformation any Christian can interpret scripture and rationalize behavior and action. Find a line in the bible and interpret to rationalize action.

    Case in point, black slavery. Based on a story of one of Noah's sons being being turned black as a punishment with his decedents being cursed, those with black skin were subject to slavery without any moral issues.


    A long list of rationalizations and justifications.

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    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    If there is a most hated atheist, I'm thunking it is probably Mao Zedong, whose family name has become a byword for everything Evangelicals fear and despise.
    Any number of monsterous theists could be named...Ivan the terrible spent one part of his day in church praying to God, the next part in his Dungeon enjoying the screams of his torture victims.

  8. Top | #318
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    Throughout the history of Christianity the main threat to Christians were other Christians.

    Historically

    Christians vs Muslims - today Egypt Coptics
    Christians vs Jew - still simmering
    Muslims vs Jews - today
    Muslims vs Muslims - today
    Christians vs Christians - N Ireland

    It is ludicrous to invoke the likes of Mao and Stalin as atheist oppressors and ignore the factual bloody history of religion. Christianity has always ben a tool for oppression in the name of a faith, North American Native Americans know that better than anyone. Forced indoctrination of children into religion as a cultural genocide.



    Hindus vs Muslims. - today

  9. Top | #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Throughout the history of Christianity the main threat to Christians were other Christians.
    The main threat to Christianity AS according to 'Jesus's way of Chrstianity (how He says you should behave etc. & etc.) has largely been througout history, from those who hate Him, just as it's written it would be.

    In a manner of speaking, they'll appear in all guises, even as "Christians," some as an enemy of Christ, or another example: as someone who's all about profitable personal gain. So depending on how one sees it, this would go with your "main threat to Christians were other Christians" line I quoted above. Unfortunately, preaching for profit, or other wrong doing by an individual in a church, gets falsely and mistakenly taken as representation of Jesus's Christianity.

    'By their fruits' you'll notice, as Jesus says, i.e. by how they profess their faith - simply comparing with what Jesus teaches, love your neihbours and your enemies etc.



    Historically

    Christians vs Muslims - today Egypt Coptics
    Christians vs Jew - still simmering
    Muslims vs Jews - today
    Muslims vs Muslims - today
    Christians vs Christians - N Ireland

    It is ludicrous to invoke the likes of Mao and Stalin as atheist oppressors and ignore the factual bloody history of religion. Christianity has always ben a tool for oppression in the name of a faith, North American Native Americans know that better than anyone. Forced indoctrination of children into religion as a cultural genocide.

    Hindus vs Muslims. - today

    Indeed, to hint the obvious: McDonald clan v Campbell clan, faith v faith and so on, so human.

    Believers would agree with the above. Acknowledging and opposing the use of devised 'oppressive tools' by hijacking a faith - doing what they do by professing in the name of... just to bring about an agenda that is strangely at odds with the very faith foundation.

    In regards to the word religion, to mean in context to organised, institutionalised, corporate, politicalised religion etc.. Theists (some if not all) will have the same POV as you and AF, assuming this is the context being used here. I have seen and heard many believers say they've left 'religion,' in the context just mentioned as they see it.. following Christ directly, by His teachings only IOW.
    Last edited by Learner; 05-11-2021 at 02:11 PM.

  10. Top | #320
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    If there is a most hated atheist, I'm thunking it is probably Mao Zedong, whose family name has become a byword for everything Evangelicals fear and despise.
    Any number of monsterous theists could be named...Ivan the terrible spent one part of his day in church praying to God, the next part in his Dungeon enjoying the screams of his torture victims.
    That wasn't really the question. My point is that I don't think old Hitch rates up there with the great horror-strewers of history. I always kind of liked the guy, despite our many political differences.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

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