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Thread: Free Will versus Everything For A Reason

  1. Top | #21
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    TheChristian narrative, at least one of them

    1. God creates humans endowed with free will
    2. Got sets rules
    3. Humans who obey are rewarded eternally
    4. Humans who disobey are punished eternally


    Free will is essential for Christians, otherwise they are obedient automations
    Not unlike Greek mythology and I believe Hindu as well.
    Free will versus predestination (election) is very famously a point of vigorous internal argument between Christians of varying branches.
    It's almost what you'd expect if they worshipped different Gods.
    You think worshiping the same God results in intellectual uniformity? I'm not sure history agrees with you on that point!
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  2. Top | #22
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    TheChristian narrative, at least one of them

    1. God creates humans endowed with free will
    2. Got sets rules
    3. Humans who obey are rewarded eternally
    4. Humans who disobey are punished eternally


    Free will is essential for Christians, otherwise they are obedient automations
    Not unlike Greek mythology and I believe Hindu as well.
    Free will versus predestination (election) is very famously a point of vigorous internal argument between Christians of varying branches.
    There is no need for debate, free will and predestination are incompatible. If predestination or determinism, then no free will (the ability to do otherwise in the same circumstances). Compatibalism is a flawed argument.

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post

    It's almost what you'd expect if they worshipped different Gods.
    You think worshiping the same God results in intellectual uniformity? I'm not sure history agrees with you on that point!
    If all they have in common is the belief in a Christ Jesus they might as well believe in different Gods. History has shown there's no way to reconcile those two opposing concepts. Protestants and Catholic theologians merely tolerate each other.

  4. Top | #24
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    TheChristian narrative, at least one of them

    1. God creates humans endowed with free will
    2. Got sets rules
    3. Humans who obey are rewarded eternally
    4. Humans who disobey are punished eternally


    Free will is essential for Christians, otherwise they are obedient automations
    Not unlike Greek mythology and I believe Hindu as well.
    Free will versus predestination (election) is very famously a point of vigorous internal argument between Christians of varying branches.
    There is no need for debate, free will and predestination are incompatible. If predestination or determinism, then no free will (the ability to do otherwise in the same circumstances). Compatibalism is a flawed argument.
    There are many Christians who believe in free will, and many Christians who only accept predestination.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  5. Top | #25
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    There is no need for debate, free will and predestination are incompatible. If predestination or determinism, then no free will (the ability to do otherwise in the same circumstances). Compatibalism is a flawed argument.
    There are many Christians who believe in free will, and many Christians who only accept predestination.
    No doubt. As long as they don't question or argue amongst themselves on matters of free will or predestination.

  6. Top | #26
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    ..........
    There are many recorded free-will v predestination debates between theists on youtube - if anyone is interested.

  7. Top | #27
    Elder Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    ..........
    There are many recorded free-will v predestination debates between theists on youtube - if anyone is interested.
    There are many arguments. That compatibalism is a failed argument does not appear to stop compatibalists from trying.

  8. Top | #28
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    There is no need for debate, free will and predestination are incompatible. If predestination or determinism, then no free will (the ability to do otherwise in the same circumstances). Compatibalism is a flawed argument.
    There are many Christians who believe in free will, and many Christians who only accept predestination.
    No doubt. As long as they don't question or argue amongst themselves on matters of free will or predestination.
    You seem to be having a very hard time understanding an incredibly simple idea, here.

    Yes, they do argue. Did argue. It's been a major point of contention for centuries. Compatibilism has nothing to do with it.
    "Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the tree of knowledge."

  9. Top | #29
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    Christians create endless streams of interpretations, little of it based in actual scripture. The bible is short on specifics so Christians interpolate meaning and god's will.


    Interpretaion is the basis of the wide diversity in Christianity outside of the Vatican.

    Free will i one of those unanswerable perennial questions.

    How many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Lets have some vigorous debate.

  10. Top | #30
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    There is no need for debate, free will and predestination are incompatible. If predestination or determinism, then no free will (the ability to do otherwise in the same circumstances). Compatibalism is a flawed argument.
    There are many Christians who believe in free will, and many Christians who only accept predestination.
    No doubt. As long as they don't question or argue amongst themselves on matters of free will or predestination.
    I guess that's the genius of having a God of three persons. The community can totally disagree among themselves about one of them and yet claim to believe in the same God.

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