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Thread: Should bakers be forced to make gender transition celebration cakes?

  1. Top | #301
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    Yes: because he thinks God made people male and female and gender transition is nothing to celebrate.
    What did Jesus say about trans people?
    Nothing, because Jesus didn't exist.
    Yet you defend the guy that uses the book to tell of Jesus life as his guidebook.
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

  2. Top | #302
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    Here Metaphor I'll help you out since you don't seem to be taking my hints.

    https://ccrd.colorado.gov/discrimination

    Snip: It would be a discriminatory action for a place of public accommodation, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, of the public accommodation based on that person or groups' protected class.

    Do I actually need to grab the statute for you?
    The refusal was not on account of Scardina's being trans, but rather, on account of the cake being for celebrating a transition.
    So the trans person is celebrating the transition but the baker is not discriminating against that person for doing the transition celebration.

    I wonder if the baker was told to say he's just objecting to the cake by his lawyer.
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

  3. Top | #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    Here Metaphor I'll help you out since you don't seem to be taking my hints.

    https://ccrd.colorado.gov/discrimination

    Snip: It would be a discriminatory action for a place of public accommodation, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, of the public accommodation based on that person or groups' protected class.

    Do I actually need to grab the statute for you?
    The refusal was not on account of Scardina's being trans, but rather, on account of the cake being for celebrating a transition.
    So the trans person is celebrating the transition but the baker is not discriminating against that person for doing the transition celebration.

    I wonder if the baker was told to say he's just objecting to the cake by his lawyer.
    No, he is not discriminating against the trans person on account of the their being a trans person. Rather, he is refusing to make a gender transition cake. If the gender transition cake had not been ordered by Scardina but by one of Scardina's friends, the baker would have refused just as much. And if a Woke non-trans person had requested a 'trans celebration cake' to use, say, in a demonstration in support of trans claims, the baker would have refused as well.

  4. Top | #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gospel View Post
    Here Metaphor I'll help you out since you don't seem to be taking my hints.

    https://ccrd.colorado.gov/discrimination

    Snip: It would be a discriminatory action for a place of public accommodation, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, of the public accommodation based on that person or groups' protected class.

    Do I actually need to grab the statute for you?
    No. I did not suggest Phillips had the legal right to refuse to serve Scardina on account of her trans status.

  5. Top | #305
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    So the trans person is celebrating the transition but the baker is not discriminating against that person for doing the transition celebration.

    I wonder if the baker was told to say he's just objecting to the cake by his lawyer.
    No, he is not discriminating against the trans person on account of the their being a trans person. Rather, he is refusing to make a gender transition cake. If the gender transition cake had not been ordered by Scardina but by one of Scardina's friends, the baker would have refused just as much. And if a Woke non-trans person had requested a 'trans celebration cake' to use, say, in a demonstration in support of trans claims, the baker would have refused as well.
    Interesting. How do you know this?
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    So the trans person is celebrating the transition but the baker is not discriminating against that person for doing the transition celebration.

    I wonder if the baker was told to say he's just objecting to the cake by his lawyer.
    No, he is not discriminating against the trans person on account of the their being a trans person. Rather, he is refusing to make a gender transition cake. If the gender transition cake had not been ordered by Scardina but by one of Scardina's friends, the baker would have refused just as much. And if a Woke non-trans person had requested a 'trans celebration cake' to use, say, in a demonstration in support of trans claims, the baker would have refused as well.
    Interesting. How do you know this?
    It's a straightforward assessment based on the available information. Do you think there is a significant chance of that being false? Do you think there is a significant chance that the baker would have baked the cake in the cases above?

    On the other hand, there is no good reason to think that the baker would have refused to, say, bake a birthday cake that a trans person wants to buy for, say, his daughter's birthday, even if the baker is well aware that the customer is a trans person (in fact, if the baker refused to do that, Scardina and allies would have a very easy way of bringing down the baker).

  7. Top | #307
    Veteran Member KeepTalking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    Interesting. How do you know this?
    It's a straightforward assessment based on the available information. Do you think there is a significant chance of that being false? Do you think there is a significant chance that the baker would have baked the cake in the cases above?

    On the other hand, there is no good reason to think that the baker would have refused to, say, bake a birthday cake that a trans person wants to buy for, say, his daughter's birthday, even if the baker is well aware that the customer is a trans person (in fact, if the baker refused to do that, Scardina and allies would have a very easy way of bringing down the baker).
    Just so you are aware, a gender transition celebration is exactly the same as a birthday to a transgender.

  8. Top | #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepTalking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    Interesting. How do you know this?
    It's a straightforward assessment based on the available information. Do you think there is a significant chance of that being false? Do you think there is a significant chance that the baker would have baked the cake in the cases above?

    On the other hand, there is no good reason to think that the baker would have refused to, say, bake a birthday cake that a trans person wants to buy for, say, his daughter's birthday, even if the baker is well aware that the customer is a trans person (in fact, if the baker refused to do that, Scardina and allies would have a very easy way of bringing down the baker).
    Just so you are aware, a gender transition celebration is exactly the same as a birthday to a transgender.
    That's a remarkably sweeping statement to make. Got a citation?
    Tom

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    Veteran Member KeepTalking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KeepTalking View Post

    Just so you are aware, a gender transition celebration is exactly the same as a birthday to a transgender.
    That's a remarkably sweeping statement to make. Got a citation?
    Tom
    Only anecdotally, having attended a gender transition party where my friend expressed exactly that sentiment.

    ETA: that apparently was not an isolated sentiment:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/happy...thda_b_9028696

  10. Top | #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepTalking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angra Mainyu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post

    Interesting. How do you know this?
    It's a straightforward assessment based on the available information. Do you think there is a significant chance of that being false? Do you think there is a significant chance that the baker would have baked the cake in the cases above?

    On the other hand, there is no good reason to think that the baker would have refused to, say, bake a birthday cake that a trans person wants to buy for, say, his daughter's birthday, even if the baker is well aware that the customer is a trans person (in fact, if the baker refused to do that, Scardina and allies would have a very easy way of bringing down the baker).
    Just so you are aware, a gender transition celebration is exactly the same as a birthday to a transgender.
    That is not at all the point. It clearly is not at all the same to the baker, and I am assessing how the baker behaves, not how transgender people behave.

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