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Thread: Should bakers be forced to make gender transition celebration cakes?

  1. Top | #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

    I’m sure the lawyer got a cake. Just not from Bigot Bakery.
    Nobody has addressed my idea of letting a baker bill themself as an artist...
    It's not what you bill yourself as, it's what you actually do.

    Creative processes to make a one-of-a-kind object: You're an artist. (Yes, this means in a sense computer programmers are artists. It's just our medium is very different and our products are sold differently.)

    Could you build a robot to do it? You're not an artist.

  2. Top | #402
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

    I’m sure the lawyer got a cake. Just not from Bigot Bakery.
    Nobody has addressed my idea of letting a baker bill themself as an artist...
    It's not what you bill yourself as, it's what you actually do.

    Creative processes to make a one-of-a-kind object: You're an artist. (Yes, this means in a sense computer programmers are artists. It's just our medium is very different and our products are sold differently.)

    Could you build a robot to do it? You're not an artist.
    AI recreates the painting techniques of famous artists
    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we can't satisfy the rich.

  3. Top | #403
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    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?

  4. Top | #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?
    I've tried to make this point more than once.
    Scardina didn't want the cake. She could easily have ordered it and gotten that.
    What she wanted was a pretext for a frivolous lawsuit. So she insisted on telling the bakery staff that this wasn't about their product, it was about her assault on their belief system.

    Personally, I'd classify that as hate speech. As a lawyer who is trans she can do that, and probably get paid well for doing so.
    Tom

  5. Top | #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?
    I've tried to make this point more than once.
    Scardina didn't want the cake. She could easily have ordered it and gotten that.
    What she wanted was a pretext for a frivolous lawsuit. So she insisted on telling the bakery staff that this wasn't about their product, it was about her assault on their belief system.

    Personally, I'd classify that as hate speech. As a lawyer who is trans she can do that, and probably get paid well for doing so.
    Tom
    You keep repeating this refrain about a "frivolous " lawsuit. From I can tell, Scardina wants to nail Phillips - which does not make the lawsuit frivolous. Moreover, if the lawsuit ends up getting a ruling by SCOTUS, then it will be a helpful lawsuit, regardless of decision by the SCOTUS.

  6. Top | #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?
    Getting the cake was never the point.

    Scardina did not ask for a blue and pink cake. She asked for a blue and pink cake that symbolised her gender transition. She asked for that so that while Phillips was assembling that cake and piping that icing, he would know what he was being forced to do. Alternatively, if he refused, Scardina could (and did) use it as the inciting incident for her lawsuit.

  7. Top | #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?
    Getting the cake was never the point.

    Scardina did not ask for a blue and pink cake. She asked for a blue and pink cake that symbolised her gender transition. She asked for that so that while Phillips was assembling that cake and piping that icing, he would know what he was being forced to do. Alternatively, if he refused, Scardina could (and did) use it as the inciting incident for her lawsuit.
    Honestly, I can't imagine eating a cake made by someone you caused to hate you.

    Deliberately.
    You made sure that the baker knew that you hated them. Then demanded a pastry.

    Scardina could have simply gotten the cake. Easy Peasy! But she didn't want that. She wanted to hate on someone she was more powerful over, because she's a politically correct lawyer and they're just a baker.

    And she got her way.

    Bitch

    Tom

  8. Top | #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post
    couldn't they just say it was for a "gender reveal" party and the baker would've never known?
    Getting the cake was never the point.

    Scardina did not ask for a blue and pink cake. She asked for a blue and pink cake that symbolised her gender transition. She asked for that so that while Phillips was assembling that cake and piping that icing, he would know what he was being forced to do. Alternatively, if he refused, Scardina could (and did) use it as the inciting incident for her lawsuit.
    The cook is forced to make that black customers pancakes.

    Your talk of force is really masking the desire to discriminate at will.

  9. Top | #409
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    The baker has no reasonable objection to making the cake.

    It is nothing but his ignorant delusions that gives him concern.

    People should not have to face ignorant discrimination from deluded immoral assholes in the market.

  10. Top | #410
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    It's not what you bill yourself as, it's what you actually do
    Wrong. You think you could tell Andy Warhol what to paint? Could you force a white supremacist poet to write a poem celebrating black culture, or gay culture, or ... Oh never mind;
    you'll have a hard time even finding a right wing artist of any sort. Maybe you can dig up Ted Nugent and tell him what to play.

    If you have an art gallery stocked with cakes you like to make, whether or not the art is ephemeral, your art is not subject to the commands of potential customers.
    Open up a cake shop offering custom cakes made to order, and you may well be subject to customers' whims. At least some of them. I guess we shall find out whether celebration of gender transition is one of those things in that location. But in any event, declaring your shop a gallery should allow you to make your own decisions about whether to bake gender transition celebration - or any other theme - cakes.

    Creative processes to make a one-of-a-kind object: You're an artist
    That's meaningless. Slightly above the molecular level, all objects in the universe are unique.

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